TrainController questions


R

rzw0wr

Newbie Switchman
I figured that I would have many, many questions about TrainController so I started a new thread.

First of all my loving wife just informed me that I need to purchase TC Silver.
Great woman, love her dearly. :D

I think I just figured out something and wanted to make sure I understood correctly.

I set up blocks in TCB and I setup a schedule.

When I select start all the required turnouts activate for the scheduled path.
Cool, I love it.

I was setting here thinking why does the train not move.
Then it hit me, I am a little slow, that the train can not move because the software does not where the train is.
It can not stop the train when the schedule is finished for the same reason.

Without block detection I will have to run the trains with the throttle.
The throttle window appears not to work with a schedule, I will check this out more.



This is correct right.
 
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Each stretch of physical track that is represented by each of the TC blocks you have drawn needs to be electrically isolated from all other sections.

Then you have to have some sort of electronic device providing occupancy status for each block to TC.

I used RR-CirKits Tower Controller 64s with BOD-8 "satellite" boards.

There is a Digitrax product BDL-168 that can provide occupancy detection but I don't like it for several reasons. One is that power to the blocks runs through the board.

The RR-CirKits BOD-8 boards use small current transformers. You use one transformer on one of the power feeders to each block. Then small gauge wires connect the transformer to the BOD-8.

With the RR-CirKits approach the power wiring to each block and the detection wiring for each block is TOTALLY separate.


And, yes, there is discounted pricing for upgrading from BRONZE to SILVER - go "shopping" on the web site to check prices. There is a small penalty for upgrading as opposed to buying the desired version outright.

In your case I would contact Herr Freiwald and explain that you purchased BRONZE not realizing you needed SILVER. Given the timing he might make you a deal of some sort.
 
After looking at the MANUAL as Jerry suggested some of this becoming a little more clear to me.
I think I will hang with Bronze for awhile to get better educated on this stuff.
If not I will try to do everything and be in deep water before long.
I think I need to start small and quit thinking so far ahead about where I want to go.

The short section I read in the manual gave me an aha moment.

I need signals.
I will look into the RR-cirkits some more.
I may be knowledgeable enough to put a kit together.

Thanks once more guys.
I do appreciate the time and patience you have taken with me.
 
To run trains under TC automatic control, like a Schedule, you need devices which allow TC to control your turnouts (which you have already I believe) and you need devices which tell TC what blocks are occupied, which you don't have.

The RR-CirKits products (either the Tower Controller with BOD-8 or the newer WatchMan) can provide this occupancy detection.

The Digitrax BDL-168 is another product that can provide this occupancy detection.


You DO NOT NEED signals, they are, so to speak, just a way to make the layout more "interesting" to watch.
 
I am not looking at signals on the layout yet.
I do like some signals on my diagram though.

Now you all got me thinking and that gives me a headache. :p

I think I am going to lay back a little and think this through a little more completely.

I would lie to make to RR-Cirkits however, right now they have completely confused.

I think it mostly the terminology I don't understand.

Thanks for the suggestions.
 
I just read the first part of the manual.
Interesting and informative.

I now have a headache that 2 migraine aspirin can't seem to handle.

It all sounds like fun to though, just a lot to learn.

I do wish my "stick" would get here. Shutting TC down to start it up again is getting very old very quickly.

Many thanks again for all the help and support.
 
I just learned about simulator mode. I will work with it some more.

fcwilt, I getting ready to order a BOD-8. What else will I need?
 
Inserted below it my layout without any industries or yard.
In TC I drew it up with 45 degree curves.

First, should I redraw it with square corners so I can better show blocks?
Second, About how big/small should I make blocks.

I was thinking that the smaller the blocks the better to show the progress of the train. However, I don't want to go over board.


Just main.jpg
The red, blue and gray section are where I have insulators now for loops.
 
The diagram you create in TC is a logical representation of your layout, not necessarily a physical one. You will likely want to maintain basic relationships.

TC displays an image of the train in a block so the bigger the block the more of the train you can see.

Also you may end up with signals and other TC elements associated with the block and it is often simplest to place them beside the block. The larger the block the more room to do this.

I would post my TC diagram but I am visiting relatives at the moment and do not have access to my files.


It's worth repeating, I think, that every block you place on the TC diagram represents an electrically-isolated, occupancy-detected stretch of track on your layout. There will be a one-to-one correspondence between the actual blocks on your layout and the blocks on you TC diagram.

So then the question becomes how large should the blocks on your layout be.

One common approach is to make the blocks long enough to hold your longest train. But this often doesn't work out in practice. On my layout I have some blocks that are 7-8 feet long and a few that are 1-2 feet long.

Up to a point the more blocks you have, the better TC can manage the trains. At a minimum TC needs 2 blocks for each running train. One block for the train to be in, one block for the train to move to.

Since TC normally will not move a train into the next block until that block is empty, the longer the block the more the train ahead has to move before the block is empty.

With short blocks, say 3', each train may well span more then one block (which is fine) but the train will, at worst, only have to move 3' to clear the block. Imagine if your blocks were 20' long.


Obviously with short blocks you will have more of them. This means more work to isolate and wire them and more cost for occupancy detectors. But that is the only real downside.


If I have some time today I will generate a TC diagram to show you one approach.
 
Thank you fcwilt.
I doubt that I will ever have a train over 3' long.
My layout is not big enough for long trains.

I hope your are having a great visit.
Have a safe trip home.
 
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Thanks Jerry,
That helped me a lot. My blocks are way too short.
I will lengthen them a little.
My small layout has something like 34 blocks.
 
You want to run signals? They certainly add a whole new dimension to your railroad. I'm using TCS and as Jerry mentioned, I upgraded to Silver so I could run the interlocking signal system. Here is a video I did on my layout when I was adding signals to it. In the video you will see a steamer approach a turnout then stop. The signals on the cantilever bridge show the following: Right signal is red because the steamer is in the block directly ahead. The top left signal is green because there are no trains in the next two blocks ahead. The bottom left signal shows red because the crossover turnout is set for straight ahead which also means the route over to the right hand running is blocked by the turnout being closed (straight ahead).
The intermodal passes on the left and you see the top left signal go red when the intermodal passes into the next block. When that is cleared the crossover, the turnout is thrown which gives red signals on all three heads. Top right because the crossover turnout is thrown, top left because the crossover is thrown and the block straight ahead is not available, the bottom left because the steamer occupies the first block ahead through the crossover. The steamer moves ahead and crosses over to right hand running and the bottom left goes green because the crossover to the right hand running is clear. The crossover is closed again and the top right goes green because the block straight ahead is clear, the top left is red because the intermodal is still in the first block ahead and the bottom left because the crossover is closed and that route is not available. The auto rack train passes the cantilever and the top right goes red because the autorack train is in the first block.
The setup here is for block detection as well as the setting of the turnouts. The computer detects all those actions and sets the lights accordingly.
I'm running three BDL168s and three SE8C boards along with three PM42s. Like Jerry, the main yard won't have block detection but the turnouts will have electrical switches that will throw the green or red signal lamps on dwarf signals.

[video=youtube;IwzcD1sSplM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwzcD1sSplM[/video]
 
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Below is a picture of my layout after seeing your and fcwilt's posts.

Does this look about right?

16 blocks in all.
I plan on using BOD-8 from RR-CirKits.


Blocks.JPG

My layout is 10' x 14'.
The long blocks on the bottom are about 12'
 
You mentioned that you thought your longest trains would be 3' or so. Yes?

If so how long are the reversing sections as drawn in the plan?

But while waiting for you answer here is a first cut based on some guess work.

I did not change the size of any of the blocks. I am simply using the default length as placed by TC, which is long enough to provide basic information.

Refinements follow after the blocking is determined.
 

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To start with, below is my layout fro Anyrail.
The squares are 12"

fcwilt, correct, my longest train should be between 3 to 5 feet.
Unless I am not thinking of something I should be.

Your picture looks somewhat like the first one I tried, I had just a few more blocks.
My top loop is about 9' to 10' may be just a little longer.
My bottom loop is about 21' give or take.
The bottom loop includes the 3 bottom tracks as well.

Jerry, This confuses me. I think you need 2 BOD8s and 16 coils and 1 I/O device for detection.
I thought that was what the DOB-8 was.
Do I need to get something else to go with the DOB-8?

I thought about Digitrax block detectors.
At $160 a piece for 32 blocks it is a good price.
I would like to try building my own from a kit.

The lights in the picture are just for the Switchboard and will likely never be put on this track.
May be a later reversion or a new layout.

Thanks once again for you help and your interest.
Sometimes I think I can almost understand some of this. :p
 
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sigh.................
Thanks Jerry.
Now I am getting very confused.
Soooooooooo, I need to build about 3 BOD-8 modules and one of their controllers?
Starting to sound like real fun here. I love to try to build kits.
This transponder thing has me even more confused at the moment.
Do I need to install stuff for transponders now?
Will BOD-8 work without it?

Sure glad I don't drink anything stronger than coffee. ;)
 
I understand the coils a little and I was expecting to buy them.
I just want to be sure when I buy anything that I order all that I will need with no surprises afterwards.
If it takes a controller that is fine. I just need to know which one and/or anything else.
Thanks for all of your help tonight.

If you have a list of what I will need I would like to have if you would.
If not, I can get a list from fcwilt I think.

I love model railroading. So much challenge.
 
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