Plywood + Foam, just plywood, or just foam?

[beiland]

Gondola Shelving

I was just in my local Harbor Freight store this evening and I began to look at their metal shelving. Its pretty damn sturdy, while not being to intrusive with its size of supports. I came home and decided to look up commercial shelving. It turns out the what i saw is general referred to 'gondola shelving'.

1) The support arms are of various lengths (the ones I saw holding up considerable weight o the shelves) were up to 21 inches long, and then 17 inches long. They are of a low profile that would not interfere with a dbl-deck layout.
2) There is a nice thin perforated metal deck as a shelf that might only need a nice foam topping.
3) The upright support beams might well be set in next to the layout rooms stud walls.
4) In my case the studing is on 24; centers, and a lot of this shelving appears to be 48' wide.

...just got me to thinking that this type of shelving could be cut down and modified to provide the sub-roadbed and shelf functions in lieu of our relatively thick plywood subroadbed with bracket supports.
http://www.usedgondolashelving.com/

...and a considerable amount of the shelving might be found on the used market?
http://www.usedgondolashelving.com/Florida_shelving.html

 

[Chevron_GATX]

Nice find there, beiland! I like those!

 

[montanan]

Here's a cheap alternative for supporting benchwork on a wall. I used half inch rigid electrical conduit. Learned this from an old cabinet maker. The back of the benchwork is leveled and screwed into wall studs. Measure the length you need from the front of the benchwork to the wall and add about 2 inches to each end. I flattened the last 2 inches and drilled a couple of holes in each flattened end. With the ends flattened, it is easy to bend the flattened end to just about any angle. One end is screwed into the back side of the front part of the benchwork. I used 1x4's for the benchwork. The other end is screwed into a stud in the wall. it is very easy to level the benchwork from front to back. This is extremely strong. I can put my entire weight on the benchwork and it doesn't budge. I built my bench work in sections, 8 feet being the longest. mot of my layout has been up for around 30 years and I have had no problems at all.



This leaves you plenty of room under the layout for storage and you don't stub your toes on legs at the front of the layout. It also makes access to the under side of the layout very easy.

 

[Raincoat2]

As this subject thread is titled, there are to be considerations of 'just foam'

Here is a copy of of a posting and a link to a very comprehesive layout construction done primarily in foam,...lots of good photos, etc

Beiland - Holy Cow! That is some layout George is building, and the photos are great. Thanks for the link. I'm only doing one part of my layout with a foam base (foam insulation panels from Home Depot) - the rest of it will be simply cork roadbed over sanded plywood. I've read quite a bit about foam and Homasote bases, and simply decided I didn't want to go in that direction. As I begin laying out roadbed and track and start running a train, I'll see if I stick to my guns on that decision or if something about the sound and operation makes me think I ought to change the base.
Johnny

 

[Raincoat2]

Beiland - those gondola shelves are an interesting idea. Don't think they'll work for me, though. Thanks for the info.
Johnny

 

[beiland]

Attaching Flex Track to Foam sub-roadbed

I still exploring a number of alternative sub-roadbeds. In doing so I find a significant number of folks that have added foam board over their plywood. Or as I just recently mentioned the metal shelf idea with foam board over the sheet metal base. Or in the case of just plain foam board sub roadbed.

In all of these cases we need to attach the track (most often flex track) to the foam board. Glues have been mentioned in most cases. But there is a problem with this idea. When I was building a fairly good size Atlas plan, the Central Midland, I found that there were many instances where I needed to modify the track plan to account for custom modifications I wished to introduce, and/or just to smooth out curves. elevations, etc.

Glues don't work so well in these situations.

Are there other methods of attaching the track 'temporarily' to the foam, until we reach a final configuration,...suggestions, solutions, personal experiences??

 

[new guy]

Meh, it comes down to what you want to see in front of you, You want "depth" go for the foam, you want trains, slap it down and run on it. Sound is so subjective to the individual space it is impossible to have a "hard and fast" guideline for sound management. Some can run on bare ply and not notice any "noise", others cannot run anything without disturbing "Grandma" or some beagle eared neighbor!

Nails or long pins will hold a temp line down on foam I should think, sectional track NOT flex track unless it's a straight section, maybe a tiny spot of glue on the end of the nail or pin to add stability and you should be good to go.

 

[RBMNfan]

I use 1" foam and steel studs. After working around these materials for years I find it convenient. I have rough carpentry skills and none of the tools /space for a carpentry shop.
I have built 4 or 5 layouts using this method.
I have plastic wheels and manuel ground throws for turnout controls. I don't notice any extra train noise but my supports are about 12" apart. I glue everything down.
This does work better when you have a solid plan to start with. I actually soldered up my short track sections and feeders while laying the track. The mainline is foam roadbed. Taking your time to do it right is part of process or you will live with the screw up. Generally speaking. There are still ways to tweak track. It just takes more time and patience. Most issues are solved if you use a level and fill holes before laying track. Secondary trackage is easier to change out.

Captain of Industry
President of Lancaster Central RR
President of Lancaster & Western Maryland Railway

 

[beiland]

I still exploring a number of alternative sub-roadbeds. In doing so I find a significant number of folks that have added foam board over their plywood. Or as I just recently mentioned the metal shelf idea with foam board over the sheet metal base. Or in the case of just plain foam board sub roadbed.

In all of these cases we need to attach the track (most often flex track) to the foam board. Glues have been mentioned in most cases. But there is a problem with this idea. When I was building a fairly good size Atlas plan, the Central Midland, I found that there were many instances where I needed to modify the track plan to account for custom modifications I wished to introduce, and/or just to smooth out curves. elevations, etc.

Glues don't work so well in these situations.

Are there other methods of attaching the track 'temporarily' to the foam, until we reach a final configuration,...suggestions, solutions, personal experiences??

I found this the other night,...'wire tying' the track to the foamboard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60wC-FugmFo

 

[RBMNfan]

I don't really have temporary track. The closest thing is sectional track in the staging yard. That I tend to glue the ends so I can stick a drywall finishing knife under and pop it up if I decide to reconfigure.

You can use the Woodland Scenics Hob-e-tac glue to layout the track and mark locations for permanent installation. If I remember correctly that glue will not hold track for longer than several weeks.

You can also use Kato Unitrack
Then mounting it is less critical and can be changed easily.

Captain of Industry
President of Lancaster Central RR
President of Lancaster & Western Maryland Railway

 

[flyboy2610]

I use DAP Alex Plus. It is a siliconized latex caulk that can be purchased at any hardware store of home center. Just run a small bead down the centerline of the track, spread it with a putty knife, lay down the track and put some weight on it for a few hours. The caulk goes down white but dries clear. It will hold the track firmly, but the track will still be easily removable with a putty knife. I also use it under the foam roadbed to glue it to the Homasote.
I can get a tube for less than $2, and it will go a long way. It also comes in colors if you w at it that way. You will need a caulking gun, but those are cheap.
http://www.menards.com/main/paint/c...ulk-plus-silicone-10-1-oz/p-1444428682490.htm