Plywood + Foam, just plywood, or just foam?
- Thread starter Raincoat2
- Start date
montanan
Whiskey Merchant
I have been watching this post since it started. Opinions are just opinions.
Personally, I can't see foam board for a base for a layout, except for modular layouts. In my area, there are a number of N scalers who have a modular layout which they put on display at various locations such as malls. I can see foam for this type of layout mainly for the weight factor.
For a permanent layout, I can't see it for a base. As I posted, I used the old cookie cutter method which has been up now for over 30 years. What I was looking for is something that was strong and would last for a long time. It has survived for over 30 years so far. I used plywood with a product call Homabed. Homabed is a homasote product that has been cut to about the same profile as cork roadbed. I started my layout hand laying code 70 track and turnouts but ended up completing it with Shinohara flex track and turnouts.
I prefer to spike my track down rather than trying to glue it. If needed, it is extremely easy to remove manufactured track and turnouts without any damage. The homasote holds spikes very well and also is great for gluing down ballast. Unfortunately, I had one area where I didn't plan properly and had to tear out a few hand laid turnouts and track.
Mounting turnout motors using plywood is pretty cut and dry, but not so when using foam. It's easy to screw into the bottom of the plywood to mount a switch machine. No so with foam. Yes, plywood is expensive, a lot more than when I built my layout, but even with the higher prices we have today, I would still build my layout the same way. I haven't had any sagging or warping at all over the years.
I guess I am just old school, but for a permanent layout I just can't understand how foam board would be of any advantage. I can see it for use in scenery as a base for forming mountains and such. I used the old styrofoam as a base for scenery, but it was removed as soon as the hydrocal I used for hard shell had dried.
That's the two cents from an old fart, but an old fart with a layout that has stook up great over the years.
Personally, I can't see foam board for a base for a layout, except for modular layouts. In my area, there are a number of N scalers who have a modular layout which they put on display at various locations such as malls. I can see foam for this type of layout mainly for the weight factor.
For a permanent layout, I can't see it for a base. As I posted, I used the old cookie cutter method which has been up now for over 30 years. What I was looking for is something that was strong and would last for a long time. It has survived for over 30 years so far. I used plywood with a product call Homabed. Homabed is a homasote product that has been cut to about the same profile as cork roadbed. I started my layout hand laying code 70 track and turnouts but ended up completing it with Shinohara flex track and turnouts.
I prefer to spike my track down rather than trying to glue it. If needed, it is extremely easy to remove manufactured track and turnouts without any damage. The homasote holds spikes very well and also is great for gluing down ballast. Unfortunately, I had one area where I didn't plan properly and had to tear out a few hand laid turnouts and track.
Mounting turnout motors using plywood is pretty cut and dry, but not so when using foam. It's easy to screw into the bottom of the plywood to mount a switch machine. No so with foam. Yes, plywood is expensive, a lot more than when I built my layout, but even with the higher prices we have today, I would still build my layout the same way. I haven't had any sagging or warping at all over the years.
I guess I am just old school, but for a permanent layout I just can't understand how foam board would be of any advantage. I can see it for use in scenery as a base for forming mountains and such. I used the old styrofoam as a base for scenery, but it was removed as soon as the hydrocal I used for hard shell had dried.
That's the two cents from an old fart, but an old fart with a layout that has stook up great over the years.
Is your layout in a somewhat temp/humidity controlled enviro?
Has it ever experienced temp/humid 'extremes' (outdoor conditions)??
The reason I ask is I am planing on building my new layout in a outdoor shed. I am planning on insulating the shed to a certain degree, and it is parked under my existing carport here in northern FL. BUT there will be times I will be away for extended periods, and doing those times there may very well be no 'air conditioning' of any kind supplied to that shed.
Has it ever experienced temp/humid 'extremes' (outdoor conditions)??
The reason I ask is I am planing on building my new layout in a outdoor shed. I am planning on insulating the shed to a certain degree, and it is parked under my existing carport here in northern FL. BUT there will be times I will be away for extended periods, and doing those times there may very well be no 'air conditioning' of any kind supplied to that shed.
montanan
Whiskey Merchant
My layout is in my basement. Montana does have a dry climate unlike northern Florida. I was stationed in northern Florida in the Navy and I know it can get humid there. The train room is heated, but there were years when I didn't do anything to the layout because I have no hobby shops at all near me and the room was not heated. Temps did not go below freezing, but were probably down into the 40's. The homasote I used was a brand called Homabed. It is quarter inch homasote that has been cut and milled to roughly the same contour as cork road bed. It is glued to the plywood which won't warp.
I really don't think you would see any warping with the relative humidity you have there. It's not like having water directly on it. Plywood does have less of a tendency to warp compared to OSB or particle board. If you support it similar to the way I did at 16" on center, I really don't think you'll have a problem. When I join two pieces of the plywood sub roadbed, I use a scrap piece of plywood around 6" long, glued and screwed underneath the sub road bed. This needless to say adds more strength.
My train shed has 2x4 studs for walls at 24 inch centers. I had (have) hopes of providing brackets off of each of these studs to support the subroadbed 'shelfs'. Those brackets might be 'traditional metal shelf brackets' or plywood cut brackets attached to the 2x4 studs around the wall. I would think that even with just flat sub-roadbed made of 3/4" plywood, the 24" spacing would be OK?.
Of course I don't want to have just plain flat roadbed.
Of course I don't want to have just plain flat roadbed.
Attachments
Chevron_GATX
Member
I thought this guy's approach was pretty clever. It appears strong as all heck. Here's the thread from another forum: Flat corner-bracket supports.
Chevron_GATX
Member
Rakks' aluminum brackets:
I have a bunch of those first brackets you showed, and they work pretty well. I would think they're stronger than the stamped-metal brackets. Most important is the bracket's length, I would think. But the benefit of the flat corner-bracket application I referenced is that you can attach a fairly long piece of dimensional lumber horizontally, and the lumber itself provides most of the support. For one part of my layout I use these super-strong tig-welded aluminum counter-support brackets:
They hold up to 250 lbs. per pair, and come in lengths as long as 24" (18" in-wall model shown above), long enough to support a 30" countertop. They come in both a surface-mount, and an inside flush-mount which you attach to the interior of a wall stud, then cover with drywall for a really slick install. As you'd expect they're fairly expensive, but make for a near-100% clearance support with a zero-footprint. For the ultimate in strength, these can't be beat. Find them at Rakks.com. Their counter-support brackets are located here.
I have a bunch of those first brackets you showed, and they work pretty well. I would think they're stronger than the stamped-metal brackets. Most important is the bracket's length, I would think. But the benefit of the flat corner-bracket application I referenced is that you can attach a fairly long piece of dimensional lumber horizontally, and the lumber itself provides most of the support. For one part of my layout I use these super-strong tig-welded aluminum counter-support brackets:
They hold up to 250 lbs. per pair, and come in lengths as long as 24" (18" in-wall model shown above), long enough to support a 30" countertop. They come in both a surface-mount, and an inside flush-mount which you attach to the interior of a wall stud, then cover with drywall for a really slick install. As you'd expect they're fairly expensive, but make for a near-100% clearance support with a zero-footprint. For the ultimate in strength, these can't be beat. Find them at Rakks.com. Their counter-support brackets are located here.
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Foam Sub-roadbed Construction
As this subject thread is titled, there are to be considerations of 'just foam'
Here is a copy of of a posting and a link to a very comprehesive layout construction done primarily in foam,...lots of good photos, etc
As this subject thread is titled, there are to be considerations of 'just foam'
Here is a copy of of a posting and a link to a very comprehesive layout construction done primarily in foam,...lots of good photos, etc
flyboy2610
Loveably weird
My layout is 3/8" plywood deck on a 1x4 framework. I have 2" pink foam over the plywood and 1/2" Homasote over that. It's nice and solid, I have 2-1/2" I can cut for surface features, and the Homasote does a fantastic job of holding track nails. I have Woodland Scenics foam roadbed, and the yard and industrial areas are going to be on 3/16" hardboard to bring them up to roadbed level.
