Paper Mache?


N

Nicole

New Member
So, we have a bunch of plaster we bought, but I was wondering if anyone has tried paper mache.

Paper mache, for those of you who don't remember pre-school, is ripped up newspapers. You dip it in a mixture of flour, salt, and water (the salt kills any mold that would want the flour). You use it the way you would use plaster strips.

Is there a reason people use the plaster instead? It seems to be that newspaper would be a lot cheaper, and achieve the desired effect. Is there something I am missing?
 
I'm sure someone has used it, and quite often at that. Plaster is chosen for it's ability to be carved.

I've seen (and chosen to do so on may future layout) the use of Rosin paper, its the paper that's laid on floors before tiling. It's very strong, and does not need to be torn into small pieces. Use hot glue to glue it to a cardboard lattice frame. If cliffs are to be added, or rack faces, they can be hot glued to the surface. Plus, its easier to remove if needed, later.

Rosin paper can be found in home improvement stores, its usually in 50' rolls.
 
Do not use paper mache. It takes forever to dry, had almost no structural strength, and will begin to smell over time no mater what you try to do to kill mold. Then it falls apart. Trust me on this.

The best current method for building scenery is using extruded Styrofoam sheets. I don't know what they would call it in Switzerland but it's usually blue or pink and come in sizes from 1/2" to 2" thick. It's used for building insulation and can usually be found at any stores that sell construction supplies. It's easy to work with, creates very little mess, and you glue sheets together with latex caulk to make as big a mountain as you want. It's very light but also reasonably strong. You can carve it into any shape you want and make very realistic cliffs and hills. That would be my first choice for scenery. If you look at the layout pictures sections here, you'll see most of the scenery was done with foam.

If you can't or don't want to use foam, Sculptamold would be my second choice. It's also very strong when dry and much easier to work with than plaster. It can also be carved and sanded into the shapes you need. Plater would be my last choice, after we've eliminated paper mache. :)
 
Here is what I would do. I would use either disposable wiping cloths (J-Cloths over here, they come in a box, and can be cut into smaller sheets...available in the grocery stores), or aluminum window screen, or cardboard strips woven into a lattice and either stapled or hot glued to the sides of the bench or frame. You can stuff grocery bags full of newspaper and use them stuffed under these arrangements to provide support when you add the paper and plaster cover you are describing (but NOT papier mache!!)

I used stacked layers of extruded styrofoam on my first layout and liked the method. Being my first such effort, I wasn't very skilled, and am never patient enough to do a good job of shaping the outer surfaces to make it look very realistic...that is my limitation, perhaps not yours.

Here is an image of my layout showing the terrain. I used both the J-Cloth and the aluminum window screening, both to reasonably good effect. I prefer, by a wide margin, the window screen....it is more durable.

What I did was cut sections and glue them to the side of my spline roadbed (another lengthy subject). Then, I mixed fine vermiculite, plaster of Paris, and Portland Cement in a ratio of 4 parts, 2 parts, and one part respectively. To that mix I often added masonary dye in powder form to give it an earthy tone. (I didn't add enough in retrospect...oh, well...) I mixed small batches of this compound and slopped it atop the screening in depths rarely exceeding 12mm. Later, you can drill holes down into it easily and plant trees on skewers.

IMG_0519.JPG


By the way, the Mikado 2-8-2 that I mentioned in your other thread is the one on the trestle pictured above. With 8 coupled wheels on a side, it needs curves at 18" to do well and to not look "goofy".
 
Sculptamold IS papier mache without most of the issues. It's just powdered and premixed. I have used it quite a bit. I mix it with "earth" colored latex paint to get the color thru the layers and then carving doesn't damage the color.
 
I have some styrofoam which we are going to use as a base. I got 2 kinds... one is the normal beady stuff that stuff gets packed in, in sheets from Home Depot but it is kind of thin. I also got some stuff from Michael's which I guess they use for flowers. It's green. It's expensive, like $10 for a 1ft x 3ft x 3inches piece. But it's thicker than the Home Depot stuff.

I was just wondering if paper mache would work over it, to smooth out edges and stuff. But it sounds like the plaster is a better bet. I checked out medical supply stores but it isn't any cheaper there. Oh well!

My rock painting skills are awful. I just tried to paint some of the styrofoam to look like rock, and it is terrible. My pond painting skills are good. I'm experimenting with some clear acrylic paint to use as water, since it's cheaper than the fake water stuff. If it works I'll post the results. The first attempt didn't, but I think it is because I got impatient and didn't wait for things to dry in between layers.
 
Nicole, the Sculptamold would be perfect for what you are doing. here's a link to some pics of my layout where I've used it over foam:
http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/17994/ppuser/136


the foam you want is the "blue" or "pink" insulation board that is sold at Home Depot / Lowes (in the States, that is). It is made by Dow. It is much cheaper than the florists' stuff and infinitely easier to work than the white "bead-board"
 
Hmm, the Home Depot I went to only had the white kind... but then, the kid helping me didn't seem to know what I was talking about. I'm going to go look again as soon as possible.
 
Nicole, I had to laugh when I read your recipe for paper mache.
When I was younger (much) I skipped the salt part and had a grand green forest growing in no time at all! It lasted for about two months, until my Mom came in to investigate that "aquarium kinda smell" and had a fit.
Now I use styrofoam shaped and sanded (rub a bounce sheet on yourself first) with rigid wrap (a cloth with plaster in the gauze) on top and rock moulds.
Ah the memories...
 
The styrofoam you want may not be available at the larger box stores, certainly in much of California. What you want is called extruded foam, and it is quite unlike the florists stuff you have. It is dense and homogeneous, and not hot-pressed as the white picnic hamper stuff is. It is made by both Dow and Corning. Dow calls theirs "styrospan", and it is blue. Corning's is pink. You can get Dow's in 61 cm X 2.39m sheets or in sheets twice as wide and as long. Comes in 2.54 cm thickness, 4 cm thickness, and 5 cm thickness.

Either product is very stiff. It takes a lot of effort to snap a small piece of it in two, whereas you can do that easily to either of the products you mention.

Go to your builder supply store, where the pro's go, and ask for styrospan or insulating foam board.
 
kenw said:
Sculptamold IS papier mache without most of the issues. It's just powdered and premixed. I have used it quite a bit. I mix it with "earth" colored latex paint to get the color thru the layers and then carving doesn't damage the color.
Click to expand...

Good point, which I failed to mention. If you're used toworking with paper mache, Scuptamold is very similar without having to worry about it stinking and falling apart. The fibers are also more dense, which gives Sculptamold better strength than paper mache.

Crandell, I'm surpised to hear you say you didn't have the patience to work with the foam scenery. While I admire the work you've done, your methods are infinitely more difficult for me than using foam. I guess I'm just like cutting things up better than you. :)
 
James Who Flees From Al, it is six o' one, half a dozen o' t'udder for me. I really did enjoy building my first layout, but I can't say it was a huge success from a modelling point of view. Track plan was a whole nuther matter, but the scenery built from stacked layers of extruded foam seemed too stratified when I was done. In places where I had covered the sides of such hills with plaster cloth and then over-sprinkled with ground foam, it looked quite good. But from what so many others have said, you can get it to look quite good without having to also overlay with plaster cloth, or even layers of hydrocal or plaster.

So, since I had had a crack at that method, I wanted another challenge and dove into spline roadbed and ground goop hardshell head-first. I didn't break anything, thank goodness. :rolleyes:
 
Selector, and all. There's a 3rd, extruded foam on the market. I'm not sure for the manufacturer, but its green. I've never seen it myself, but have seen it mentioned.

Foam choices vary by location, with the white expanded foam being the most common, with foil lined, yellow, extruded-like foam next in line (don't try that crap, too soft!). The Pink, blue, or Green are what you're looking for as Selector pointed out.

The issue I had, was it seemed no one in the home improvement stores seemed to know what extruded foam insulation board was. Heck most didn't even know what the foam sheets were used for in the first place!

If no one knows, just as for the insulation department, and have a look for yourself, its usually there, or nearby.
 
I guess the bulk of my layout is a combination of blue foam and Sculptamold. I stack the foam the create the basic elevations, and carve it to create a general tho rough shape. Thinner layers of Sculptamold are applied over that to provide texture, contours and subtle variation. Carving even the blue foam is pretty messy, the Sculptamold is really a lot neater even if wet. Using the foam as the bulk of the shape keeps the amount (and therefore the costs) of the Sculptamold down.

New homes were being built nearby and I simply asked for their scraps of blue foam, free is always good…...

As I mentioned earlier, I mix a latex paint into the Sculptamold to give it an earth color, it saves having to paint it later. If I need to carve it or poke holes, the “white” Sculptamold never shows. The latex paint also toughens the Sculptamold tremendously, and helps it cling to vertical surfaces while it dries without much slumping. Since the Sculptamold is over the foam, I can plant trees and poles securely into the foam thru the Scuptamold. Most areas have only a quarter- to half-inch inch layer of Sculptamold over the foam, so a 3(?) lb bag goes pretty far.
 
I live in a city of almost 300,000 and Sculptamold is almost impossible to find. I found out the Joanne's carries it online so dropped into their local outlet. After three sales people, including the manager, told me they didn't carry it, I finally found three boxes on a top shelf, marked half price for closeout. Bought all three but have yet to try it.

As for paper mache, I've recently tried experimenting with the left over crumbs from ceiling tiles I use for rocks. My layout will be mostly covered by sedimentary rocks so I'm using a lot of ceiling times salvaged from office remodels. It's basically paper from what I understand. I crumble/crush it with my hands (Ms. Doc said no way to using the blender) to eliminate the big chunks. So far I've tried one batch with liquid starch and one with a 50-50 glue/water mix. Both take a while to dry but seem to work out fine.
Doc
 
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