Need Help With Information on Lionel Train Set


Bruette said:
As Willie said, the center rail is often referred to as "hot", the outer rails are "common" completing the circuit. Old traction tires are ok, but they make your track dirty quickly and will likely fall apart.
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Would Bullfrog Snot not be an alternative to actual traction tyres ?
 
Mixed Freight said:
Hello GuilfordRailman,

For the traction tire, as others have stated, this loco only has one traction tire. And that's all that is really needed. Since model train locos don't have differential units like full size vehicles do when going around turns, putting traction tires on each side of the loco actually causes the wheels to fight each other when going around curved track. Best to let one wheel have traction, and the other wheel to slip slightly on the track. Regardless, a lot of manufacturers still put traction tires on both sides. Go figure.

You should be able to find spare traction tires from someone that sells Lionel parts. And replacing it on this loco should be relatively easy. Simply remove the screw holding the side rod to the wheel, remove and replace the traction tire, then reattach the side rod and screw.

The wobble you're experiencing may be caused by either a bent axle or a wheel out of perpendicular with the axle. Either of which could have resulted from being dropped at one time in its life. Spin the drive wheels and see if one wobbles - if so, then this is causing your wobbling problem. Hopefully it's not a bent axle - this could be hard to fix without knowing how to disassemble locos. If a wheel is out of perpendicular with the axle, you may be able to tap the wheel with a small hammer to realign it. Just have to be careful to not hit it too hard so you don't break something.

To be right honest, this is not one of Lionel's higher quality train sets, but rather, one of the cheapest O27 sets they would have offered whatever year (or years) it was produced. I'm seriously guessing it's not now, nor probably ever will be, highly collectible. However, from your pictures, the loco and cars look to be in very nice condition, and with the track and transformer included, $45 for everything was still not a bad deal on it. Just good, cheap fun. 👍
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Thank you for the information! Very helpful! Yeah, it definitely wasn’t purchased to be added to a collection or anything like that. Cheap fun was always the intention:)
 
Bruette said:
Hmm, before I answer, what is Bullfrog Snot?
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Invented it seems by an N scaler, I've used this, and it does what it says.

www.trains.com

Bullfrog Snot traction-tire maker | ModelRailroader.com

Model Railroader is the world's largest magazine on model trains and model railroad layouts. We feature beginner and advanced help on all model railroading scales, including layout track plans, model railroad product reviews, model train news, and model railroad forums.
www.trains.com www.trains.com
 
Didn’t have a chance today to look at the locomotive in more detail and diagnose the wobbling issue but last night I found a document online with the parts list and diagrams for Lionel models 1970-1986! I was able to locate the identification number for my locomotive and the corresponding pages in the document. With this information I should be able to (hopefully) acquire the tractions bands and any other parts I need:)

Here’s the link to the document for anyone interested: https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/fileS...47/fodoid/161067875074662142/1to9Complete.pdf
 
GuilfordRailman said:
Didn’t have a chance today to look at the locomotive in more detail and diagnose the wobbling issue but last night I found a document online with the parts list and diagrams for Lionel models 1970-1986! I was able to locate the identification number for my locomotive and the corresponding pages in the document. With this information I should be able to (hopefully) acquire the tractions bands and any other parts I need:)

Here’s the link to the document for anyone interested: https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/fileS...47/fodoid/161067875074662142/1to9Complete.pdf
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Thank you! That is one of the books I would have been searching for in my storage boxes. Well done sir!
 
Okay….I’ve finally had a chance to take a look at the locomotive. I removed the shell and exposed the inner workings. With regards to the wobbling, there does seem to be a very minor mal-alignment of either the wheel itself or the axle containing the traction wheel. I am not too worried about this issue. However….upon further examination I noticed that the side rods (main rods?) are positioned differently on each side so that one sits forward of the other by a good amount. Again, I do not know much about Lionel locomotives but I’m assuming this isn’t supposed to be? If so, how do I go about fixing it?

IMG_5694.jpeg
 
GuilfordRailman said:
Okay….I’ve finally had a chance to take a look at the locomotive. I removed the shell and exposed the inner workings. With regards to the wobbling, there does seem to be a very minor mal-alignment of either the wheel itself or the axle containing the traction wheel. I am not too worried about this issue. However….upon further examination I noticed that the side rods (main rods?) are positioned differently on each side so that one sits forward of the other by a good amount. Again, I do not know much about Lionel locomotives but I’m assuming this isn’t supposed to be? If so, how do I go about fixing it?

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The wheels are supposed to align, front to back. They are not supposed to align, side to side. On a real steam locomotive, the wheels should be 90 degrees "off" from side to side, to prevent the engine from becoming "quarter-locked." In fact, that is one of th ereasons for "quartering" drivers on a steam engine. The wheels need to be in alignment on each side, to they don't become quarter-bound, and lock up.
 
bnsf971 said:
The wheels are supposed to align, front to back. They are not supposed to align, side to side. On a real steam locomotive, the wheels should be 90 degrees "off" from side to side, to prevent the engine from becoming "quarter-locked." In fact, that is one of th ereasons for "quartering" drivers on a steam engine. The wheels need to be in alignment on each side, to they don't become quarter-bound, and lock up.
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I think I understand what you’re saying…just to be sure, I took a photos of each side of the locomotive. You can see in the first photo that the counter weights are at a 90 degree position from the surface of the rail, whereas in the second photo taken of the opposite side shows they are parallel to the surface of the rail. This would mean that one side rod should therefore be “ahead” of the other when the train is moving correct?

IMG_5698.jpeg


IMG_5699.jpeg
 
Easiest way I can explain is this.

If you look at the wheel as a clock face, if where the crank pins are in the first photo, that would be the 3 o'clock position, the crank pins on the opposite side should be in either at the 12 or 6 o'clock, position. (90 degrees offset, or quartered) if not then one side would need to be adjusted or Quartered correctly or as Terry has said you get quarter lock.
 
Smudge617 said:
Easiest way I can explain is this.

If you look at the wheel as a clock face, if where the crank pins are in the first photo, that would be the 3 o'clock position, the crank pins on the opposite side should be in either at the 12 or 6 o'clock, position. (90 degrees offset, or quartered) if not then one side would need to be adjusted or Quartered correctly or as Terry has said you get quarter lock.
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Thanks! I was thinking about it in terms of a clock too actually. I’m probably just overthinking it lol. For some reason my thoughts were that both sides of the locomotive needed to be positioned exactly the same to function but after these explanations and a video I watched, it’s coming together!

The opposite side is at the 12 O’clock position or very close to it so I guess there’s no work to be done there!

Thanks for the help! Now on to the next steps:)
 
GuilfordRailman said:
For some reason my thoughts were that both sides of the locomotive needed to be positioned exactly the same to function.
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Smudge617 said:
Diesel shunters can have that arrangement as they don't use a valve gear to power the drive/piston rods to turn the wheels
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Prototypically speaking, steam engine drivers are quartered from one side to the other. However, on our little electric-powered models, it really doesn't matter, IF all axles and/or wheels are geared together, and the side rods are just for looks. On the other hand, if the wheels or axles are NOT geared together, then just like the prototype, the wheels need to be quartered in order to operate properly.

I believe this would also apply to diesel switchers (shunters). If only ONE AXLE PER TRUCK is powered, and side rods are used to connect power to the other axle(s) on the truck, then they too would have to be quartered just like a steam loco. One complete truck can be totally out of time/sequence with the other truck, but the wheels/axles on each truck must be quartered.

Funny story here, I have a Lionel 4-4-0 old time "General" locomotive (both drive axles geared together). While it should be quartered for prototypical accuracy, it's not. Both sides are positioned exactly the same. And due to the way it is built, there's nothing you can really do about it. Once again, what saves the day is the fact you can't really see both sides at the same time while it is running, so it's not a big deal unless you are a purist. And a purist wouldn't own this model anyway, because it's not really a scale model to begin with, but just a reasonably decent looking facsimile of an old time wood burning loco.

And another interesting tidbit, several months ago I picked up a Lionel postwar 2-6-2 2025 steamer at a model train show (all three drive axles geared together). I didn't notice until after I got home that the drivers are not quartered, but rather 180 degrees apart. Since all the other postwar steamers I have purchased in the past were all quartered, I have to wonder if this particular loco was taken apart and reassembled improperly at one point in time time, or else just an original factory screw-up. Right now it runs okay the way it is. And although it is in reasonably decent shape, I plan on a fairly major tear-down, overhaul, and re-painting sometime in the future, and I will properly quarter the drivers upon reassembly.

Boy, this is too much fun!!! :p👍
 
Mixed Freight said:
Prototypically speaking, steam engine drivers are quartered from one side to the other. However, on our little electric-powered models, it really doesn't matter, IF all axles and/or wheels are geared together, and the side rods are just for looks.
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That’s good to know! I was worried i’d have to disassemble my locomotive even more and give it an overhaul, something I don’t (yet) know how to do.
 
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