N Scale Setup


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patriothonor

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Do I really need a DCC test track to program a decoder? Can't I just use a DCC main line using a Digitrax Zephyr. I thought I had to have separate codes for my locos which were all 003. In trying to change them though my Zephyr, I think I screwed them all up including the Zephyr and had to return it to the factory. Hep me, hep me please. Still waiting to get my Digitrax Zephyr back.

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patriothonor said:
Do I really need a DCC test track to program a decoder?
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No, you can use program on the main, but then you have to take off all the other locos with that same channel number, and you have to play with all the CV codes individually. So basically it is much harder.

I thought I had to have separate codes for my locos which were all 003.
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You only have to have separate codes in the locos if you want to run them independently - which is sort of the point of DCC. So, yes I would say you need different channel numbers in each loco.

I think I screwed them all up including the Zephyr and had to return it to the factory.
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Did you follow the steps in the users manual, or just try to do it off the cuff? I haven't used my Zephyr since 2012, but as I recall it was pretty straight forward just to change a channel number. If you are programming on the program track, I don't know what I could add to page 24 that isn't already said there. For programming on the main option the steps and values will depend upon the exact decoder you are trying to program.
 
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Iron Horseman said:
No, you can use program on the main, but then you have to take off all the other locos with that same channel number, and you have to play with all the CV codes individually. So basically it is much harder.

You only have to have separate codes in the locos if you want to run them independently - which is sort of the point of DCC. So, yes I would say you need different channel numbers in each loco.

Did you follow the steps in the users manual, or just try to do it off the cuff? I haven't used my Zephyr since 2012, but as I recall it was pretty straight forward just to change a channel number. If you are programming on the program track, I don't know what I could add to page 24 that isn't already said there. For programming on the main option the steps and values will depend upon the exact decoder you are trying to program.
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Yep all what he said. I just have a short pc of track on a 1x4 about a foot long to do any programming. Many of my locos are power hogs any way being BLI or psunammis so they need the added program track booster.
 
Just to be clear, all loco decoders, silent or sound come from the maker set to short address 3. Unless your product says otherwise, to enter that address when setting up or running a loco from factory, you should only need to press the 3 button. You have 2 options when addressing locos. Short address up to 127, or long address. These are setup differently by your cab and recognised as different. You can have long addresses (usually you use the cab # on the engine), above and below 127 (avoid 3 as a long address). It is not a bad idea when setting up long addresses for single digit cab numbered locos, to, for instance in the case of say, cab #5, to place a couple of 0 (zeros) in front of the 5 i.e. 005. This will then be the number you will use when "calling up" that loco. Any cab numbers with 3 numbers (100-127), the address should have an extra 0 at the front to create a 4 number address. The reason for this is because, when setting up an Advanced Consist, the Consist # assigned to it by your Command Station (all Consists are stored in the CS) also have a high # of 127 and they will start at 127 for the first Consist set-up and work backwards from there. If any of your locos are long or short addressed exactly to those #'s, confusion will reign. Long loco addresses above 127 are OK.
 
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Thanks, friends
That makes sense. I tried to follow the book, but somehow got confused and messed everything up including the Digitrax Zephyr which I had to send back for repairs. I'LL try again when I get it back. I have 4 Sound Trax locos, so I'll do one at a time and hope I can do it. The book is a little confusing since I'm new to this. I've got a lot to learn. All your advice hopefully will get me through this. I have two main lines and 4 crossovers to sidings on a 4x5 layout. Layout is starting to look good and hope to finish it by Christmas. Finishing landscaping and adding more buildings now. This is all a new challenge to me now.
Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.
patriothonor

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Other things have been addressed, so I'll just hit this one aspect. While you don't absolutely have to have a programming track, I will say that it is desirable. If nothing else, it allows you to test a decoder's functionality without applying the main track voltage to it and possibly burning up a decoder that's been installed improperly. These days I do use programming on the main for pretty much everything, but I ALWAYS put the locos on the programming track first and query the decoder to make sure nothing is shorted. And yes, even factory-installed decoders can have issues. While having the programming track to check your own installs is an absolute lifesaver, it's also nice to have a place where you can clearly and unequivocally know whether there's a fault even with factory-installed decoders. I've only had one that came from the factory shorted out to the motor, but if it can happen once then it can absolutely happen again, and better to be able to tell them you found that out on a programming track than for them to start questioning how it got fried on the main.
 
The thing is that you can run all of those locos at the same time (old style consist) using just the default 3 address, but you won't be able to run them individually with the others sitting on live track, 'cause they'll all move together wherever they are. Long (or as it's also called, extended) addressing overcomes that by giving each one it's own identity. With a double main you can have trains running on both at the same time without any need to separate (insulate) the tracks from one another, both going in the same direction or opposite. I'm not familiar with the Digitrax Zephyr's cab display, but my NCE only displays 1 active loco or consist at a time (recall is used to access any others in use), so remember if you have 2 or more locos/trains actually moving at the same time, you will only have 1 under direct control. If you bring that one to a stop, the other/s will still be moving. That's one of the most noticeable differences between DC and DCC. With DC, you turn off the track power to stop your train, with DCC, you have to "tell" it to stop. Same applies if you use a tethered cab that you can plug in around the layout. If you unplug with a moving train, it just goes on it's merry way.
 
MikeOwnby said:
Other things have been addressed, so I'll just hit this one aspect. While you don't absolutely have to have a programming track, I will say that it is desirable. If nothing else, it allows you to test a decoder's functionality without applying the main track voltage to it and possibly burning up a decoder that's been installed improperly. These days I do use programming on the main for pretty much everything, but I ALWAYS put the locos on the programming track first and query the decoder to make sure nothing is shorted. And yes, even factory-installed decoders can have issues. While having the programming track to check your own installs is an absolute lifesaver, it's also nice to have a place where you can clearly and unequivocally know whether there's a fault even with factory-installed decoders. I've only had one that came from the factory shorted out to the motor, but if it can happen once then it can absolutely happen again, and better to be able to tell them you found that out on a programming track than for them to start questioning how it got fried on the main.
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Only proviso on that Mike is that Tsunami's in particular need the extra power of a booster if using a programming track, or do all your setting up on the main. Not sure just how much boost is needed, but all of my Tsunamis won't even get acknowledged on my p/track, have to do it on the main.
 
Thanks again everyone, this has been so helpful. Hope I don't screw things up again when I get my Digitrax back. Been looking for a test track that I could use to change Loco codes, but confused by all that are available.

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tootnkumin said:
Only proviso on that Mike is that Tsunami's in particular need the extra power of a booster if using a programming track, or do all your setting up on the main. Not sure just how much boost is needed, but all of my Tsunamis won't even get acknowledged on my p/track, have to do it on the main.
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Now that you mention it, I do seem to have heard that before. What I'm wondering is if it's the same issue as some of the old Atlas decoders made by Lenz, where one had to place a 1k resistor across the programming track to increase the current and get it to communicate successfully. Has that been tried with the Tsunami or is it just a no-go unless it's on the main? I'm not a sound guy at all, so I'm admittedly ignorant when we start talking about sound decoders.

patriothonor said:
Thanks again everyone, this has been so helpful. Hope I don't screw things up again when I get my Digitrax back. Been looking for a test track that I could use to change Loco codes, but confused by all that are available.

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You can make a test or programming track out of anything that fits your needs, so don't stress about needing something special. Any bit of track that you can hook wires to will work. You can even use a part of your mainline on your layout as a programming track by simply isolating it and using a break-before-make or center-off dpdt switch to toggle between programming track leads and main power leads.
 
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I have seen test tracks using a piece of flex, sectional, or Kato track. If not connected to the layout can not program all your locomotives to the same address. Can speed match engines on the mainline. I use the Zephyr to program and speed match engines. It took a lot of practice for me and still have to read the book to make it work
Dan
 
I use a 'spur' of flex that is not attached and just de-tach it from the layout and hook the feeds to the program track to it.


I,ve tried programming on the main, taking everybody off to do it can be a pain, a program track is the way to go.
 
I had one track in the last yard wired thru a toggle switch.
Power went straight thru to that track and throwing the switch killed the layout to save the other loco's.
 
Rico said:
I had one track in the last yard wired thru a toggle switch.
Power went straight thru to that track and throwing the switch killed the layout to save the other loco's.
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THATS "The Bees Knees"! My 'eventual' design does contain such! Probably the best option. I like the idea of 'running' them off the program track onto the layout. Getting those big steamers on and off the rails can be a pain and I don't like 'sliding' them.
 
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