Is Model Railroading getting out of hand with things


Um, can someone remind me what this thread was originally about .... ? Oh yeah, I remember now "Things Getting Out Of Hand..." :)

Cheers,
 
Bob said:
...The reason for most of these things is time. The model railroaders who used to scratch build steam locomotives are gone for the most part, replaced by folks with busy lives who want to get a layout up and running before they retire and move someplace where they don't have room for a layout.
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To get back on topic I went back and re-read a few comments that I skimmed through. Sorry, I missed this comment Bob. But I would like to comment that I totally agree with you here. It seems the ready built structures are on display more than the detail parts and such are these days. I Wasn't as deep into the hobby as I am now. But I have always been a modeler who enjoyed the more challenging kits. And if there wasn't a kit that suited my needs I scratch built it. And even if there was I still sometimes scratch-built my models just for the fun in doing so.

Today it seems people don't do that as much and it kills me. Because $60.00 for a craftsman kit vs. $10.00 worth of scratch-building supplies seems to me a sizable trade-off to save a little time. And I don't see many of these craftsman kits saving much time anyway. That is why they are craftsman kits. You have to do a ton of work to get them finished. So the demand for these kits must be up because the cost surely is. I remember when they were $10.00-$20.00 for really detailed kits. Now they are into the hundreds.

It's like the hobby shop I get my stuff from. When I bought my stuff to do some scratch building they sorta looked at me like I was crazy. I am pretty sure it is because most of the stuff I bought they couldn't understand what I was going to do with it. Then I ordered two packages of Micro Engineering code 55 weathered rail. I told them I would make my own ties. They looked at me like I was nuts. I am. But that is besides the point because they don't know that. The thought of someone hand-laying N scale track must seem strange to them I am sure. But I like the realism.

Anyway, after dropping $100 I came home with a little bit of regret because I don't feel I got my money's worth. Although, it has provided a week and a half of model building fun (see my threads in the showing off forum). I am always the only guy in that shop when I go in there. So I feel obligated to buy something. It is a convenience to be able to drive for 15 minutes and find the items I need. I just wish it was the fault of the hobby shop for the high prices so I could just shop online and save a few bucks. But I like the conversation that comes with the sale. And I hope that shop is there for years to come.

So if you guys want to support this hobby, I say this... support your local hobby shop. Don't let them fizzle out because everyone is buying from the giants such as Walthers. These shops are almost always ran by older folk. Who's gonna fill their shoes as old George would say. I hope it's my kids.
 
I get what you're saying, Kevin. I've definitely spent an extra buck at my local N-scale specialist store. I want them to always be there, mainly because a couple years ago I was SO clueless, and I will be again about something. They helped and taught and didn't charge a dime for it. This forum is nice, but sometimes there's just no substitute for putting your hands and eyeballs on something. Their prices on some things are just plain ridiculous but I'm willing to buy a thing or two whenever I visit just for the companionship and expertise.
 
Hey Gentlemen,

Milwdt, you did a good job of opening up some great debate unfortunately it got mixed up with some, "not so great debate". I hope you are still with us and not run off by the "not so great debate"

For the ones who contributed to the great debate, thank you. You understand Civility goes along way.

Now we are heading down the road to another hotly debated topic "local vs mass marketers" I enjoyed this debate the last time we had it on here and I am sure I will enjoy it again.

I can see both sides of this Issue and what I call "value added sellers" have to justify their higher prices with good service, convince and expertise. For someone who wants his purchase in his hand immediately you can never beat the local shop. The expertise part is getting harder to maintain. Forums like this one and others are providing a source for information never seen before the internet. Manufactures are providing online service and support. Individuals are maintaining web sites and using YouTube to share their expertise.

Take out specific prices because they are relevant to the times. I am talking about gross profit margins. Consumers demand more competitive prices, look at the success of the big box stores for example. If you can't sell at discount prices or provide a unique service, survival will be difficult at best no matter what business you are in.

I am fortunate because my local shop MB Klein/Model Train Stuff embraced the idea of making profit through volume rather then the old method of sell less for more. They were doing it before the internet through mail order. While I watched many shops in Baltimore close, MB Klein grew.

The shop down the street from my house closed and another that was closer to me then MB Klein. I chose MB Klein long before the internet because they always were nice to me and gave everyone a discount. I could have gone to Toys R US for my HO Christmas Trains, but I chose to drive downtown to MB Klein where they were back then in a not so nice neighborhood to their overcrowded busy shop. They have always understood customer service.

My experience with other train shops in Baltimore was bad! I have not been in them all but the 2 nearest to me (before they went out of business) were rude and offered no discounts, full list price or nothing. I was not a model railroader then, I was just looking for trains for my Christmas tree. They acted like I was bothering them! Since getting into this hobby full time I now have over $30000 worth of train stuff. How many customers like me did they chase away?

This is business, not charity. I love MB Klein, but if I find something I am looking for online for 20% less I am buying it.

We all have to make our own choices based on what is most important to us.

Getting back to the topic, I will reiterate what I said earlier. There is something for everyone and every budget in this hobby.

One more thing; LASM I want to thank you for all your many contributions to this hobby. You always share your knowledge, brilliant ideas and amazing creativity with me and everyone that reads your posts, thank you so much!
 
NScaler said:
So if you guys want to support this hobby, I say this... support your local hobby shop. Don't let them fizzle out because everyone is buying from the giants such as Walthers. These shops are almost always ran by older folk. Who's gonna fill their shoes as old George would say. I hope it's my kids.
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I am mostly with you on this, and agree that the LHS is a key to sustaining interest in this hobby.

My issue with this is- when the LHS is doing so bad financially, they assume the only way to make profit is to raise their margin higher, and hope that their patrons aren't familiar with mb Klein pricing.

The same Bachman DCC loco that someone referred to for $45 at MB, my LHS sells for $95. I have no clue what msrp is on that, but if MB still makes profit on a $45 sale- I feel so ripped off if I purchase anything to "support" what sometimes feels like robbery.

The only way I can support my LHS is to wait until he puts items on clearance or buy his used items, and I always buy something every time I go in, just to support him. But realistically, 90% of my money has been spent online at MB.
 
Maybe I was misunderstood. My LHS has decent prices. I have yet to go in there wanting something and be turned away by the price because I am pretty familiar with what most things cost before I go in there. I could have bought my Micro Engineering rail online for a few dollars cheaper, but I would have had to pay shipping which would have evened out the prices. MB Klein has the rail for $38.39. I am not sure what the shipping would be on two packages. I assume a few bucks. So my order would have cost me somewhere between $80.00-$85.00 maybe? I paid I think $42.00 each, so $84.00. So they have good prices. I was merely commenting that the cost of things leaves me a bit disappointed.
 
NScaler said:
Maybe I was misunderstood. My LHS has decent prices. I have yet to go in there wanting something and be turned away by the price because I am pretty familiar with what most things cost before I go in there. I could have bought my Micro Engineering rail online for a few dollars cheaper, but I would have had to pay shipping which would have evened out the prices. MB Klein has the rail for $38.39. I am not sure what the shipping would be on two packages. I assume a few bucks. So my order would have cost me somewhere between $80.00-$85.00 maybe? I paid I think $42.00 each, so $84.00. So they have good prices. I was merely commenting that the cost of things leaves me a bit disappointed.
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I think I understood you, I was commenting on the fact that not all LHS are made the same! I would spend 90% of my money at a LHS if they only had a 10-20% mark-up over online pricing, but unfortunately they don't.
 
Yeah, that is too bad. So just curious, how much is shipping at MB Klein for particular items?
 
Yeah, that puts the prices back up there for me. It makes me happy though to know I can get good deals locally. Hopefully my frequent visits will have them stocking up on more N scale items. I usually have to have them place an order for me before I fill my shopping cart so to speak.
 
Maybe some of the kids that are Lego users will gravitate to model railroading as adults. Any hobby shop that carries Legos might be grooming the next group of modelers.

When I was a kid, AC-Gilbert "Erector sets" became a 'gateway' into my eventual interest in building better models as a teenager and it carried into adulthood after college.
 
Walthers has a battery op toddler train setup at their base store- my son can't handle the real rail trains but loves anything That looks similar to dads trains. Not a bad price tag on that starter set either at $50. I like that they are making moves to interest the younger gen- great planning for future success and interest starting early.
 
Charles Smiley said:
...

When I was a kid, AC-Gilbert "Erector sets" became a 'gateway' into my eventual interest in building better models as a teenager and it carried into adulthood after college.
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I definitely was one of those Erector set junkies. Seems that if I didn't get trains for Christmas, I got Erector Sets.
 
Gawd! You guys have got it lucky, Try it from down here, specially since our $ went into freefall to 12-13c below parity, PayPal or Bank commissions for doing the money exchange, US International postage increased by 17% last year. You wanna count your blessings.
 
Several good points here... I'm going to "cherry-pick" and add my two cents worth (and we all know what two cents is worth nowadays! :rolleyes: )

My local hobby shop is 23+ miles away, but is worth every penny spent and mile driven. The guys (and a gal who conducts plastic modeling clinics!) there are great people, and it's fun just to shoot the breeze with them. And not only will the owner order things they don't have in stock, they will always match Walthers' sale catalog prices -- so I get a little off on the price of an item I want, and the LHS gets both my business and the $$ I spend in paint, glue, etc. I consider that a win-win situation!

I also like the comments about Lego blocks and Erector sets. I remember my childhood, when I would turn my American Flyer train setup into a "model railroad" by using my "Block City" blocks (anyone remember them?) to build a business that needed a box car to receive / ship products, and use my Tinkertoys to build a water tower, or a crane to load / unload a gondola or a flat car. My Lincoln Logs became the town hall or some such, and Dad cut me various lengths of 1x4" pine (edges and corners sanded" so I could have "paved roads". Those additions changed my playing with trains and just watching them run around and around (which was usually fun in itself) into a "working railroad", more like what I saw in real life as the through freight rumbled through town or the local set out and picked up cars. Happy memories!

Regards,
Tom Stockton
 
MY 2 cents: Having almost a coronary, after recently deciding to get back in Hobby after long time away [and SEEING the ridiculous prices on EVERYTHING!] am so grateful to The Good Lord that I amassed what HO I did over the years! Even have Peco code 100 flex in 25 length box I've never used yet ...it now costs triple what I paid for it and this doesn't include the big savings on my batch of their code 100 Insulfrogs & very nice TT. Even have several IHC & Cornerstone structure kits, still unopened. Almost every HO item I still have [sold some surplus at last spring local train show; did quite well] is now worth at least double in cost. IF I were just coming into the Hobby now, as a long-retired senior on ss w/fixed income, would just stay with my OTHER 2 Hobbies: John Wayne/ Bogart/ Sci-Fi/ other movies and riding our old Goldwing sidecar rig all over N E each summer with the wife [for past 12 years!]. TTFN.....Old Tom in NH :)

P.S. If am desperate to obtain some HO item(s) always go to the 3 big local NH train shows each spring/summer. Pick a bargain item and get it 15 minutes before show closes and dealers will negotiate [last spring, got nice, new HO Athearn, B&M 2-bay coal hopper w/KDs for 5 bucks] .....was very Happy!
 
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Papasmurf, I faced a little of what you have. I had a lot stored that I didn't no I had. A bunch or boxes (turned out 21 boxes) in the garage and storage shed. It was "mostly" details, woodland scenics, stucture kits and a smattering of rolling stock, including some favorites and a couple of Loco's, and a few broken loco's. All the "Good Stuff" was sold in my divorce fifteen years ago, "the good stuff" included All the Union Pacific Brass I could find and a small bunch of HOn3 DRGW narrow gauge loco's and rolling stock. 9 brass cabeese! Now by railroad budget is whatever I can sell on eBay (not MRR except a Mantua Pacific, way to Big). I had stored this stuff, and not looked at it since about 1990. Sore spot I guess.

All I really need for DC operation is track, lumber and few pieces of motive power. I have a bigish room in a house I own. Being single also has it's benifits. I'm sorting the stuff from the boxes on my dinner table, eating on a TV tray. Flea Bay to the rescue. My LHS hasn't had ANY track except Bachmann and Kato type stuff since before Christmas. I can't see any increase in his stock of quality items at all, but I may be wrong.

The prices don't matter as much as you'd think. I've already experianced the brass and shinohara double x-over and slip switch stage. Now I'd rather meander in the woods, maybe have a small town tucked away, or built on my timesaver. Mines (all kinds, gold silver copper and cat sand) lumber and trees. That's my passion now. (Did you know cat sand comes from mines? It does.)
 
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