Improving Our Steam Engines Performance


A freight car shell that was long enough to fit on the powered chassis might work. The only question might be the diameter of the unit's wheels...nominally 40", might raise the couplers too much. I don't know if NWSL still has those powered trucks that have smaller wheels, and could fit under a freight car.
 
That's a good thought about coupler height but at least it's usually easier to bring them down than the opposite. The wheel diameters might not look prototypical but might work. A 60 ft box looks pretty close in length but the freight might be a little narrower. Could be a deal breaker.
 
Bigboy57 said:
That's a good thought about coupler height but at least it's usually easier to bring them down than the opposite. The wheel diameters might not look prototypical but might work. A 60 ft box looks pretty close in length but the freight might be a little narrower. Could be a deal breaker.
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I had also thought about a water tender and fitting it with stanton drives but not sure if those drives would have enough usable torque.
 
With about four-six ounces of weight added, I would think a well-worked Stanton Drive should add something useful. Even a half-ounce tractive effort adds two to four items of rolling stock on level track.
 
Since my previous post , I have ordered a Proto B engine on the cheap, I will equip it with a soundtraxx motor decoder and I will make a shell to fit using styrene. It will represent a water tender and after I am totally done including all the details etc., my cost should still be under $100. This will work with any of my big steams although with the UP name on it, I may have to make another with AT&SF decals. I will keep you posted with my progress.
 
Sounds like an interesting project.

Just as a point of information to anyone interested, some of the prototype steam locomotives had steam boosters in either their trailing trucks or in the tender trucks. These were controlled from the cab for starting heavy manifests, and once the train was rolling, the boosters were cut out. I don't know if the boosters were used on steep grades or not. I know that the Colorado & Southern, a subsidiary of the C.B.& Q., would have to double-head their E-5As over some of the terrain between Colorado Springs and Denver for heavy freights. The E-5a's were simply copies of the "Q's" M-2 2-10-2's. I'm not sure if the Burlington did this with coal trains from Beardstown, Illinois, but they could get away with a single M-4 2-10-4 in the same area. None of those engines were equipped with boosters, however.
 
trailrider said:
Sounds like an interesting project.

Just as a point of information to anyone interested, some of the prototype steam locomotives had steam boosters in either their trailing trucks or in the tender trucks. These were controlled from the cab for starting heavy manifests, and once the train was rolling, the boosters were cut out. I don't know if the boosters were used on steep grades or not. I know that the Colorado & Southern, a subsidiary of the C.B.& Q., would have to double-head their E-5As over some of the terrain between Colorado Springs and Denver for heavy freights. The E-5a's were simply copies of the "Q's" M-2 2-10-2's. I'm not sure if the Burlington did this with coal trains from Beardstown, Illinois, but they could get away with a single M-4 2-10-4 in the same area. None of those engines were equipped with boosters, however.
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Very interesting. I have found very little info about this. Do you have a source you can share?
 
Bigboy57 said:
Very interesting. I have found very little info about this. Do you have a source you can share?
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The book, "Steam Locomotives of the Burlington Route" by Bernard G. Corbin & William F. Kerka, Copyright 1960, Printed by Thomas D. Murphy Co., Red Oak, Iowa. Probably long out of print, but maybe you could locate a copy on the internet. The Burlington Route Historical Society might have more information from a back issue of the Bulletin. You might also look up Burlington 2-10-4's on Google. The other book that describes the M-4 in limited detail, but has information about almost all 10-wheel driver steam locomotives is "Age of the Decapods" by Robert A LeMassena & Harold K. Volrath, published by the Colorado Railroad Museum Copyright 2010. Again, I don't know if they still have any available. Hope this helps.
 
trailrider said:
The book, "Steam Locomotives of the Burlington Route" by Bernard G. Corbin & William F. Kerka, Copyright 1960, Printed by Thomas D. Murphy Co., Red Oak, Iowa. Probably long out of print, but maybe you could locate a copy on the internet. The Burlington Route Historical Society might have more information from a back issue of the Bulletin. You might also look up Burlington 2-10-4's on Google. The other book that describes the M-4 in limited detail, but has information about almost all 10-wheel driver steam locomotives is "Age of the Decapods" by Robert A LeMassena & Harold K. Volrath, published by the Colorado Railroad Museum Copyright 2010. Again, I don't know if they still have any available. Hope this helps.
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Thank you. I grew up just north of Burlington on the Illinois side. I will track it down. Sounds like a good read.
 
I'm glad to see some work being done on this concept of a disguised pusher engine. i've not had time to get back to the subject, but I have collected up a number of items to run some experiments in the future.
Brian
 
beiland said:
I'm glad to see some work being done on this concept of a disguised pusher engine. i've not had time to get back to the subject, but I have collected up a number of items to run some experiments in the future.
Brian
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I’ve put some thought into this thread for quite a while but like you, I’ve had other distractions of my railroad time. This winter, I’ve been converting the old Rivarossi steamers to dcc and a solution has become more of a priority. That area of my layout with a 3-3.5% grade really challenges the traction and motor torque. The Big Boy is especially taxed. New traction tires give it the grip it needs but then power becomes a factor. I’ve been running a Gp7 pusher and really getting good results there but looking for a steam solution other than double heading locomotives.
I have a new motor for the Big Boy I’m going to install but I think this will only improve the results for a short time. I may replace that motor with two slightly smaller ones attaching each one to a single gear tower but that may require moving the decoder into the tender and more rewiring.
If I am successful withe the b unit water tender, this may become the best long term solution.
 
The water tender pusher might be even more plausible as it might have the more robust trucks to handle the weight of such a car.
And I guess you can fashion your own kind of water tender body?

I had been thinking of express baggage/freight car body as i believe a number of prototype trains utilized these?
 
Making a shell out of sheet styrene can be pretty easy. First make a mold to the exact size and shape of the inside of the shell. I will be using a piece of 2 x4 for this. After getting it shaped by cutting, whittling and sanding cut the styrene to rough size and use a heat gun to soften and form 3 sides to the mold, leaving the bottom open. Next make cuts on the ends of the shell and make the end pieces. Attach those and add detail parts, paint and decals. Fasten the new shell to the powered B unit and your done.
 
Aux water tender from BLI
2016NWAuxTender2of5.3.png
 
I work in HON3, White Pass and Yukon. I have a couple of lovely and expensive Blakstone K27's but my real workhorses are KATO NW2's that I narrow gauged into GE 90 Series Shovel noses. Those locos can pull the wallpaper off the wall, having huge dual flywheel motors and a solid metal chassis that fills most of the GE shells I printed. Just can't get the weight in the steam locos, unless you want it in the tender....
 
Bigboy57 said:
I’ve put some thought into this thread for quite a while but like you, I’ve had other distractions of my railroad time. This winter, I’ve been converting the old Rivarossi steamers to dcc and a solution has become more of a priority. That area of my layout with a 3-3.5% grade really challenges the traction and motor torque. The Big Boy is especially taxed. New traction tires give it the grip it needs but then power becomes a factor. I’ve been running a Gp7 pusher and really getting good results there but looking for a steam solution other than double heading locomotives.
I have a new motor for the Big Boy I’m going to install but I think this will only improve the results for a short time. I may replace that motor with two slightly smaller ones attaching each one to a single gear tower but that may require moving the decoder into the tender and more rewiring.
If I am successful withe the b unit water tender, this may become the best long term solution.
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A long time ago i had several Rivarossi engines that I double-motored,...two identical motors for each gear drive. that ran in unison so were OK for DC operation (I wasn't into DCC at that time). I even had them weathered up (by another fellow) along with some real coal dropping. They looked VERY good, and ran very good, but I sold them off when I got some other big steamers.
 
Some of the Rivarossi locos such as the big boy, do have enough room in the boiler area to do just that. It would require putting decoders, keep alive and speakers in the tender, but other models it would not be possible without building a new frame. There was a guy on another forum, named Mel, who did just that with several cab forward Rivarossi locos. He did a very good job of documenting his modifications but unfortunately, he is no longer with us.
If my motor replacement in my big boy does not produce satisfactory results, I may try duplicate motors. They would need to be mounted in opposing direction, so one would need to be connected in reverse electrically.
But power is only half of the problem as traction becomes the other factor. I have found traction tires that work very well but the more power you apply to the wheels the more the tires will fail. This is why I really like the pusher idea.
 
Bigboy57 said:
View attachment 180980
This is the one I am thinking of modeling.
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The problem I have with that one it is so modern it would not look that good with many older steam engines,...assuming you want to run this pusher behind a variety of your steam engines?? That's why i like the BLI one or the Bachmann one.

I'll try to find a few photos of my dual motor installation.
 
beiland said:
The problem I have with that one it is so modern it would not look that good with many older steam engines,...assuming you want to run this pusher behind a variety of your steam engines?? That's why i like the BLI one or the Bachmann one.

I'll try to find a few photos of my dual motor installation.
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I have been doing more reading and one of them was actually built in the '40's. It is similar in design but not as angled at the ends. It is up yellow but my version will be black. They look pretty similar to the Big Boy/Challenger centipede tender.
 
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