Help Please....design a dbl-deck layout in its own Hand-House shed

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beiland

Active Member
Modify Turntable Loop?

The thought occurred to me that I might make a modification to turntable loop that would allow 2 trains to run on the lower deck concurrently,.... if I were to further limit the amount of track that was 'shared' between the inner loops of track and the perimeter loop. I can't limit it all, but I can limit better than half of it.

What if I were to make the turntable loop a double-track loop. I propose to take the two long parallel tracks on the right side of the layout and pinch them up as close to their wall as feasible,...after all they are going to be covered over with a 'street and thin city building scene' that will constructed of lt-weigth foam board and plastic so as to be removable to access any derailments.

Those two parallel tracks will feed into the turnable loop of 2 concentric radius tracks, the outer one 25" and the inner one 23". The inner one will be for shorter engines, not long articulates (although I think some can transverse it).


What do I gain?
1) First off it might be interesting to have 2 mainlines coming around that outer edge of the turnable scene and feeding the yard, the turntable, a train station.

2) Secondly it frees up any 'sharing of track' on that side of the layout. So the inner loop train can bounce back and forth across the layout while only fearing one section of 'shared track' with the perimeter train,....that common track around the 'steel loop',

3) It might allow that 'perimeter running passenger train' to come into a station for a stop even while the freight train continues thru the freight yard and back onto the the other side of the layout.

revised turntable loop, dbl-track 2.jpg
 
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beiland

Active Member
opinion from another forum, my reply

You are already in restricted space - something has to give. A double track main should be one of those. You'll have issues with a 2" center space on curves that tight unless you are running N scale or only really short cars (nothing really over 40 foot types). If you are modeling Civil War or just after, carry on.
I was not planning on a dbl track mainline ALL the way around, ...just that portion that would be under the lift-out city backdrop scene.

Yes I understand that 2 inch spacing on the dbl-loop of track might be a little small, so perhaps with some crunching I could get the outer loop up to 26" and/or that inner loop down to 22", or at least provide for 2.5 inches between those tracks. I would NOT be counting on running long articulates or long cars on the inner loop in that roundhouse area.

Instead of having two loops on the wings, how about moving the yard down to one of them? It can be narrower then, making the entry aisle wider. With the looop going around it, you have room for a turntable but not much of a roundhouse. If the yard extends down one side, you can put the turntable offset towards the outside wall (so you just have stub tracks on the opposite side of the bridge) and room for a 3 or 4 stall engine house angles down towards the door.
I see what you are saying, but perhaps I have not conveyed what I have in mind for the roundhouse scene. First off I suspect I will have only the front face of a roundhouse with perhaps a dwg of the remainder of it on the backdrop. Just don't have room for whole structure.. Perhaps some photos or cut off ends of tenders in the doorways of that roundhouse.

What I really want in that scene is some display tracks for some of my steam collection, some caboose(s), and steam services like this...



A lift bridge across the entry would allow an all the way around the walls continuous run, otherwise, putting a second loop in the upper right means the run is a lot shorter. But again - space is limited, something has to give. A 5 mile mainline just isn't going to fit in this space. I'd probably kill both loops and go with the lift bridge across the door.
Perhaps you missed it, but I plan on having 2 (two) lift out bridges across the entry way. The one on the lower level will be at 40" off the floor, about my waist height, and will be 27-28 inches wide. The upper level bridge at 60" off the floor will be at shoulder height, and can be quite a bit wider (no loops up there). Interior doors in an a house are usually 29-30 inches wide. So I think I can fit in between those loops on either side of the layout,...and thus be able to run trains in a continous manner around portions of the layout WITHOUT having either of the bridges across the entry way set in place.....loop to loop wouldn't they call it?

For the penninsula - there's a VERY good idea in the July 2017 MRH (free). It's relatively narrow, yet supports two large industries with multiple spots on each one. The one takes something like 6 different car types. It's the later stages of the TOMA contest second place winner's article.
I will have to look that one up. Thanks, Brian
 
img001.jpg
Brian..... I've been following your ---- design double deck layout---- I saw the post in the other forum of the track plan with a peninsula. Here is my track plan with a peninsula. Our rooms are about the same size, little bigger by a few feet on the long side on mine. Anyway the biggest difference is the door way. Mine being in the middle of the long wall. Any other wall would put it outside. I want to change my layout is the biggest reason I have been following along, seeing what you have been coming up with. How close to a final plan do you think you are getting?
 

beiland

Active Member
....I have been following along, seeing what you have been coming up with. How close to a final plan do you think you are getting?
Jerry
That's a good question Jerry. I'm not sure myself at the moment,...I'm still exploring.

I thought I had a good handle on the situation with my original plan, but I thought more seriously about the clear space in the center, and decided I had better explore that avenue before I went to far with my original plan. My newer plan doesn't look as exciting on paper as the older one, but at the moment I think my new one makes more sense. If I can think of a good scene to put into that loop at the rear, I believe I have some of the other portions worked out in my head.

There was a point very early on when I was considering the basic concept or around the wall with as big of a peninsula that would also have a loop. I was wondering if it should be oriented in the shed lenghtwise, or widthwise.

I wonder if in your case with your door were it is, if you should considered rotating such a layout 90 degrees and having the peninsula rooted on the long wall? With a shallow peninsula like I am suggesting now, you could have wider, oval peninsula like mind, and the two other good size loops in the corners,...and yet still have good aisle space??
 
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santafewillie

Well-Known Member
Brian - With the upper level at 60", a lift-out bridge may not be necessary. A "stoop-under" would suffice there as even tall persons can stoop under 60". It would simplify construction.

Willie
 

beiland

Active Member
Lift Out Bridge, upper level

Thought about that as well. Just figured to play it safe I would at least make it 'removable' if necessary. I may not want to duck under a permanently fixed bridge if I am doing a lot of in-and-out of the shed jobs.,....painting outdoors, etc
 

beiland

Active Member
....
I wonder if in your case with your door were it is, if you should considered rotating such a layout 90 degrees and having the peninsula rooted on the long wall? With a shallow peninsula like I am suggesting now, you could have wider, oval peninsula like mind, and the two other good size loops in the corners,...and yet still have good aisle space??
Jerry, do you have some track design software you could do a quick sketch of that idea,...or I could do a real rough pencil one??
 
Brian......
I wonder if in your case with your door were it is, if you should considered rotating such a layout 90 degrees and having the peninsula rooted on the long wall
,
yes infact I considered that & drew a rough sketch of it. That does make a peninsula that is pretty squat. After having got'n this far on my layout, I'm finding that I am really liking the yard switching more & more, and want to use the whole peninsula for a yard.
You are welcome to do a sketch......Thanks...
OK, maybe this would be the time I should start a separate thread, I do not want to hijack your thread & get off the subject of your layout......
 

beiland

Active Member
sketch for Jerry

Sorry for poor quality due to my having done it so 'sparingly', and the way my camera distorts it.

But to me it looks like you could make big gains. Most of the radiuses I utilized were 27 inches (bigger than the 24" on my plan), ....and I pulled that 'peninsula loop' out a full foot from the back wall. My narrowest aisle was approx 26".

I think you have plenty of room to do yards and whatever, either inside that oval peninsula, or in that one foot space behind it, or shorter ones on the sides. Your space is that much bigger than mine.
(BTW I used your 12.25' x 19.5' dimensions of your space.
Jerry's potential layout.jpg
 
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beiland

Active Member
East to West theme, and Diesel-Steam transistion era

I have a strong preference for steam engines, but have collected lots of diesels as well. So lets say I will model that transition era were both were utilized. I am also not a strict time frame person that feels a need to model any particular era. I just like the looks of model trains, particularly the highly detailed ones that have come out over the past 15 years.

I found myself liking those big C&O, B&O, NW steam locos, but also some of the Santa Fe ones. I just couldn't resist a number of those Santa Fe diesels with their marvelous paint schemes that harkened back to when I was a kid. So on my first major layout (the Atlas plan "Central Midland") I ran all of these different lines. I would explain that my railroad went from the east coast to the west coast,...Baltimore to California.

I'm imagining doing something similar with this new layout,....the lower deck level will be the 'Baltimore' theme, progressing up thru the mountains of Appalachian mountains (coal county) to the upper layer western mountains supporting logging trains, and finally to a Santa Fe train station on the upper level. Since I have recently decreased the size of that peninsula, I'm not so sure I'll be able to do those Appalachian mountains ( maybe I should put those in that new oval peninsula loop ??).

At the moment I don't anticipate that the upper deck will have any individual loops of track on it, but rather will have a perimeter track only. There will be a turnout at the upper level of the helix that will permit the train to go either way around that perimeter of the shed, and will allow the train to go back down the helix in a forward manner.

There are at least two scenes/structures I have planned for that upper level.
1) Santa Fe train station. I'm imaging this station (or condensed version) ...
Santa Fe station, ps800.jpg


.....sitting on the upper deck over one of those two big blobs at the entrance to the shed. I want to surround it with a number of the Santa Fe engines I have (F7 sets, DL109 set, E6, and a steamer), and some SF passenger cars from Walthers.

I would like this scene over on the left side so it is not directly over the Balt city scene.

I would also like to have a condensed container port on this upper level. I have a lot of containers and container cars that need to be 'justified' on my layout. I'm thinking the newer big style container cranes and their ship can be painted onto the background. Then the straddle type loader and the smaller container movers can be in the foreground working amongst the stacked containers, and loading railcars bound for the east coast

I figure there will need to be a fair depth to this scene to have the container cars being loaded, and of course some sort of thru line for the passenger train. My thoughts are this scene needs to be located over the deep decked turntable loop, and/or over that wide freight yard scene down below.

Those are the only ideas I have at the moment. I really need to be able to look thru that huge collection of materials I extracted from the magazines for years ( I literally cut up hundreds of mags, and filed them away). But all of that material is in my cargo trailer.
 
Brian.....Interesting. I had the peninsula drooping down & the two loops by the door coming up towards the peninsula, It was a pretty squat looking thing..... Are you using one of those layout programs to design yours? Just wondering if it help me to get that. Thanks much for your time.....
 

beiland

Active Member
Brian.....Interesting. I had the peninsula drooping down & the two loops by the door coming up towards the peninsula, It was a pretty squat looking thing..... Are you using one of those layout programs to design yours? Just wondering if it help me to get that. Thanks much for your time.....
No, I am not using any design software,..just too old to sit down and learn how to use all those icons, etc. One of reasons I started this (these) subject thread(s) was to see if I could attract a younger person who enjoys playing with these design programs to help me verify some of my ideas via a graphical presentation, and perhaps suggest other alternatives.

The second reason for the forum discussions is to help myself think thru some of my own thoughts / ideas. It helps sometimes to put your thoughts down on paper, and then review them several times. (So perhaps as you mentioned before you might consider starting a new subject thread on your plans). You might even consider several forums as I have found there are persons who never 'cross over' between forums,....trains and boat forums.

I just use graph paper to draw the plan somewhat to scale. Regrettable the area I am visiting at this time doesn't have much in the way of scanners, so I had to resort to using my camera to get the dwgs into a digital form. And the camera seems to distort the images more than I would have thought.
 

beiland

Active Member
City Backdrop & Steel Scene

I was just going back thru some photos and postings I had made about my old Atlas #29 Central Midland layout and ran across this .....


railandsail said:
City Scene Backdrop
This could be the most exciting scene of all. My plan was to make this a city scene of Baltimore, an industrial city, home of the nations first railroad, and home of the famous B&O. There would be two distinctive images I thought I would include; 1) the infamous ‘Bromo Selzer’ tower*, and 2) the Mt Royal train station**. The train station in particular, as I had no room on the layout for a model station. I imagine it could be painted onto the backdrop, and include a dbl track portion that would appear to join the actual mainlines over in the back corner of the layout.

There are lighting techniques, layering techniques with poster board materials, and thin single-sided plastic structures that could make this city scene come alive, even in its very ‘flat presentation’. I have some sample illustrations.

Coal was, and is very much a part of Baltimore’s history along with steel and railroads. I had thought it could be possible to paint a coal fired power plant or steel mill onto a portion of this city scene down on the lower left hand side near the roundhouse area. Maybe add a large pile of coal alone with a string of coal cars waiting to be unloaded. If the layout were spaced out a bit from this wall/backdrop, it might be possible to insert one or two ‘fake’ sidings with coal cars and/or B&O passenger cars in waiting.
Yes, still applicable for my new layout,...Balt cityscape in that right hand blob, and steel blast furnance in that left hand blob.
 

beiland

Active Member
Steel Scene

Look what I found today as I was looking for steel mill related images. I just had to make a note of it here so I would remember to look at it again

http://baltimoreandohiomodelrailroad.com/steel_mill.html

I know this sounds and looks awfully ambitious to include a steel scene on my relatively small layout, but I'm thinking the only actual structure I would include would be the blast furnace itself. The rest would exist on the painted backdrop, somewhat like this photo from that site...

blast furnance with painted backdrop, ps 800.jpg
 

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
An interesting concept. A multi-depth, shadow, low relief, buildings backdrop. Each layer would only need to be about a 1/4" or less to create that 3D effect, a bit like the old stand up pages they have in greeting cards or some children's books.
 
Turntable Loop & City Backgrd

Just did this quick little sketch, Haven't worked out any details of the freight yard yet.
turntable loop.jpg

I suspect I will have only the front face of a roundhouse with perhaps a dwg of the remainder of it on the backdrop. Just don't have room for whole structure.. Perhaps some photos or cut off ends of tenders in the doorways of that roundhouse.

What I really want in that scene is some display tracks for some of my steam collection, some caboose(s), and steam services like this.....

steam eng services.jpg


And a thin city scene backdrop something like a cross between these two photos....

city and yard, ps.jpg

maxresdefault, ps.jpg
 
Actually I got a kit (the kits) when they first came out, then sold it off when I thought I would not likely be using it.

About a year ago I found another one already built, and weathered, and lighted. So I bought it thinking perhaps I may be able to use it. I also got the supporting structures, built and weathered as well, but I don't image I will find any room for them. Likely they will just be painted on the backdrop.
 
Latest Thoughts & Access Step Ladder

I finally arrived back home & getting ready to re-evaluate some of my thoughts on my layout design. I have accepted the criticism I have received on my 'too-narrow aisles', thus revising my center peninsula size. I've reduced its size and projection quite a bit, ie the most recent edition...
oval peninsula loop, double loop around turntable.jpg



I have yet to decide on the exact track plans (both mains and spurs). I'm still looking for suggestions to complete the mainlines that I have partially sketched in.

My new cardboard mock-ups give me a nice big 'open space' in the center of the room that will allow for a small working bench installation inside the shed.
DSCF1492.jpg
DSCF1499.jpg
(still hard to get a photo shot that depicts the openness that is now created by this smaller peninsula)
 

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