Help Please....design a dbl-deck layout in its own Hand-House shed

[beiland]

Fortunately my shed is tall enough to fit my 6'4" tall body,...even with clearance for an overhead fan.

Sure wish I had that extra foot of width, but these sheds come in 'std even-numbered sizes' (10-12-14 etc). Besides that I would never had been able to move the carport supports out another foot.

 

[beiland]

Space Between Shelf Decks

I have been thing originally that I would locate the lower deck at 40" off the floor, and the upper deck at 60". You then must subtract the thickness of the upper deck to come up with the visible range of 17"-18"

But it sure would to have a bit more space between the 2 decks,...something like these?

 

[beiland]

Staging Tracks

I plan on using these style steel brackets to support the 5/8" plywood subroadbed of the lower deck. ....rather than the 2x4's shown in that one photo, I will instead have longer, thinner extra supports cut from that same 5/8" cabinet grade plywood,...thus double layer 5/8" plywood between the steel brackets and the subroadbed.

Those steel brackets will support what I estimate to be 4 parallel staging tracks down that side of the shed/layout. those staging tracks will be contained within that triangular space of the brackets.

 

[tootnkumin]

The thing to watch out for with multidecks, when the bottom shelf is wider than the top, as in your pic, is the amount of belt line overhang, you or any visitor might have, especially if having to reach over on the top shelf to rescue something. Loose jackets or other clothing can catch on stuff on the lower level.

 

[beiland]

That belt line overhang is certainly true. I have a neat little fold-up stool that should work in most instances.


I did take notice that one should NOT make the lower deck/shelf too low,... as that can present back aches from leaning over.

 

[santafewillie]

I plan on using these style steel brackets to support the 5/8" plywood subroadbed of the lower deck. ....rather than the 2x4's shown in that one photo, I will instead have longer, thinner extra supports cut from that same 5/8" cabinet grade plywood,...thus double layer 5/8" plywood between the steel brackets and the subroadbed.

Those steel brackets will support what I estimate to be 4 parallel staging tracks down that side of the shed/layout. those staging tracks will be contained within that triangular space of the brackets.

Use what you want, but 5/8" is overkill. Especially double 5/8". I can stand, sit and crawl around on my 1/2" supported every 16". You're really only supporting lightweight trains. With supports every 16", warpage isn't a problem. Run a 1"x4" along the front (fascia) and attach pieces between the brackets in the back along the walls and you should be fine. This should work even in FL where humidity can normally cause issues.

Willie

 

[beiland]

Thought about 1/2" thick subroadbed plywood, and may yet use it, ....but my supports are 24" apart rather than 16".

And those larger brackets reach out 18" towards the outer edges of the shelf. But in some places my subroadbed plywood shelf is 52" deep to accept those 48" diameter circles of tracks in the blobs.

Just made me think I might well go with 5/8", but not 3/4" as many have done. Besides the quality of today's plywood is just not what it use to be.

I also thought about the 1x4 strips along the wall (between the brackets), but I question some of it's usefulness, being strips rather than a continuous piece, and it might interfere with my staging tracks under there,....so I thought just make it 5/8" subroadbed rather than 1/2" ?

The 'double layer' of 5/8' at each bracket will also give me just enough room for electrical wiring stapled up tight under the plywood subroadbed,.....I hope?

 

[Iron Horseman]

Besides the quality of today's plywood is just not what it use to be.

just depends on what one is willing to pay for. Coming out of Southerland Lumber a couple weeks ago someone had just purchased a gorgeous piece of #1 plywood. It was so nice had to go over and run my hand over it. Compared to the stuff I normally buy it was dreamy. Investigation showed it to be 3/4" with nine plys red oak and no knots on any of the plys (cabnet grade). $52.99. https://sutherlands.com/products/it...4-Red-Oak-Cabinet-Grade-Plywood&s_market=true

I also thought about the 1x4 strips along the wall (between the brackets), but I question some of it's usefulness, being strips rather than a continuous piece, and it might interfere with my staging tracks under there,....so I thought just make it 5/8" subroadbed rather than 1/2" ?

I like the idea of strips between the brackets. If they are well anchored to the wall the wood sitting on top doesn't care if they are continuous or not. I think continuous really only matters if they are "free standing" so to speak, and have to be supporting themselves as well as the surface load. Cannot address the staging issue, but if that does interfere I would suggest you might want to lower the staging a big more as there really needs to be room to fit a hand in there over the cars. It is always a train on the rear staging track that derails and needs to be "reached".

 

[beiland]

.....
I like the idea of strips between the brackets. If they are well anchored to the wall the wood sitting on top doesn't care if they are continuous or not. I think continuous really only matters if they are "free standing" so to speak, and have to be supporting themselves as well as the surface load. Cannot address the staging issue, but if that does interfere I would suggest you might want to lower the staging a big more as there really needs to be room to fit a hand in there over the cars. It is always a train on the rear staging track that derails and needs to be "reached".

The strips between the brackets will not be anchored to a continuous wall surface, but rather only at their ends,...to the 2x4 studs on the shed's walls. But that still might be viable.

Good point about the need for overhead space,....had not considered that.

 

[beiland]

Sketch of Rt Hand Loop

First off please excuse the 'unprofessional presentation'. I tried briefly some track design software, and became discouraged very easily,...too many symbols to learn how to manipulate,..or something like that

Next, I am on holiday without any drawing instruments, so I paid a visit to the local dollar store, and picked up some school supplies. No local scanning shops, so I just took a photo of my sketch.

To try and cut down on confusion I decided to present the plan in phases, and without some of the local trackage that will be added later. The first phase drawing is for the loop on the right side of the layout (looking in thru my shed's entrance).

The scale is 4 of those square blocks equal 12",....3" per block The radius's are all 24" except for the helix, which is 30". This is the loop that will alternately put trains into the helix structure if so selected. At that point it is a good 8" off of the lower subroadbed. At the head blob of the peninsula it is 4" off the subroadbed to provide clearance for another identical loop of track hidden under it (not shown yet).

Notice that there will be a removable bridge across the shed's entrance that will offer the alternative of a total trip around the perimeter of the shed on this lower deck. ....(multiple trains can still be run without ever having this removable bridge in place).

 

[beiland]

Sketch of Left Side Loop

Again please excuse crude nature of posting the sketch,...just had to try and photograph the pencil sketch, and that got warped.

Not totally married to this particular plan, but it does look bad for the basic concept. I had to play around a bit to get that loop of track to bend over to the left hand side while maintaining the 24" min radius curves. I also included some little notations on the heights of the tracks at various locations. I sought to maintain approx 2% grade on all tracks shown

My aisles are about 27-29 inches in the recesses at the base of the peninsula, and narrow to 18 inches between the peninsula and the other two big blobs.

I've expanded that yard facility on the right. Its difficult to see on this dwg, but at the upper left hand corner before the outer track makes it turn, there is a turnout with an arrow that says "down to the staging tracks' that would wrap around that rt hand corner and go down the length of shed under the yard scene and Balt city backdrop.

Haven't drawn in the roundtable yet but it will be located in that blob on the lower right. Haven't decided how to configure the blob on the lower left,...was thinking of some sort of waterfront/small-harbor scene.

 

[santafewillie]

Just looked at your left side drawing. Along with radius, you must consider grades. The distance from that lower turnout on the left, to the overpass appears to be slightly over 51". I assume that the 4/0 is the height in inches that you wish to go. That's a grade of about 8%, steep even for logging railroads. Perhaps run the track along the wall the whole way and eliminate that overpass. Even then, you are looking at about 3.7%. As a reference point, a recommended 2% grade takes 16' to go up 4". Just an observation.

Willie

 

[beiland]

Nice spotting Willie. You are correct about the manner I have posted it. I meant to leave it 'undefined' at the moment until I could resolve some issues.

What happened is that I am really unsure about how to configure this loop as a whole. As I mentioned I wanted to place a waterfront scene in this area, but I also wished to have that completed loop of track headed back down that side of the layout.

If I chose to try and utilize that waterfront scene/diorama I already have (will post a few photos), I wanted to place it in that corner such that I did not have that return loop of track crossing the water outboard of the waterfront scene.




To not have that loop of track passing in front of that waterfront scene I might have to bury it one layer down, sort of like the dbl layered track over at the head of the peninsula blob? Then have the upper layer of track pass around the back of the waterfront and proceed across the bridge at the entrance to the shed.

Alternately I might choose to built a nice little switching scene something like this Chesapeake harbor belt scene I once saw,...and have the loop of track incorporated with it somehow?

 

[beiland]

Saw that you posted the waterfront link while I was composing, very nicely done.

Willie

Turns out those waterfront photos were posted on the darn Photobucket site, so I just recently reposted a few photos on this discussion, and may find time to post a goodly number of others I have of that scene. I bought that waterfront scene from an estate sale that could not find a taker for the complete layout,.. when the wife was selling the house. Such a shame as the level of detail on that layout was MARVELOUS.

 

[blackz28]

since i live in cape coral i need to come up with a place like that or a big barn/ shelter that i can air condition to do my real layout

 

[beiland]

I just took my time and posted a 'notify me' note on Craigslist for sheds for sale. Got that one for almost half of what they wanted for a new one.

 

[tootnkumin]

That lighthouse/harbor scene, I'm sure it appeared in Model Railroader, years back.

 

[beiland]

Port Scene Challenge

I am really unsure about how to configure that loop at the lower left hand side blob. As I mentioned I wanted to place a port/waterfront scene in this area, but I also wished to have that completed loop of track headed back down that side of the layout.


If I chose to try and utilize that waterfront scene/diorama I already have (will post a few photos), I wanted to place it in that corner such that I did not have that return loop of track crossing the water outboard of the waterfront scene, but I am having problems with that idea, as I don't feel that the lighthouse should be 'inside the outer track. This scene that I have also does not provide any switching action.


Alternately I might choose to built a nice little switching scene something like this Chesapeake harbor belt scene I once saw,...and have the loop of track incorporated with it somehow?





So here is the CHALLENGE.

How might I best place a small port scene in the loop on the bottom left? Can I fit something like that 'Chesapeake Harbor Belt' scene into that area?


There would be a lower loop of track that is just making the 90 degree around the corner to continue on across the bridge at the shed's entrance.

Then there would be an elevated (4") making a loop around the scene and continuing back down the left side of the layout. That elevated track would cross a bridge,...like the swing bridge does at the entrance to 'Chesapeake Harbor Belt' scene. Perhaps this could be a Walthers drawbridge at the entrance to the small port?

This port scene might fill up the loop circle itself, and that funnel shaped area above the loop circle. I'm thinking it could have 2 feeder tracks from the mainline servicing both sides of the port, and these could be relatively steep grade(s) as it will only be switcher/yard type locos working here pulling 1-2 cars max at a time.

Give me some ideas please

 

[beiland]

New thoughts on Port Scene

I am rethinking.

Here is what I have in mind at the moment. I will eliminate the duel level tracks in the lower left loop and bring the two tracks entering at the left together into a single track at something like a 2" height all the way around the loop and across a drawbridge at the entrance to the harbor scene in the middle of the loop. (little sketch coming).

That will make the access tracks to this port area much less steep. It will also eliminate that one track from being a hidden track in that far corner (no longer under an upper loop of track).

I'm also thinking I could fit some oil storage tanks in there near the port scene??...just thinking

some rough little sketches....

 

[beiland]

Automatic 'Block' Entry when using DCC operating system

Don't know if I worded this correctly, but I am wondering if when a layout is operating in DCC, is there a method to automatically stop 2 trains from entering in a common stretch of track?

For instance here is a layout plan I am working on. There are two individual loops of track on either side of the layout. And both of these loops of track share some portion of their track with that loop of track that goes all way around the circumference of the shed.
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?40307-Help-Please-design-a-dbl-deck-layout-in-its-own-Hand-House-shed&p=455760#post455760


http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?40307-Help-Please-design-a-dbl-deck-layout-in-its-own-Hand-House-shed&p=456158#post456158




If I was running 3 trains at any one time (one each on the 2 individual loops, and one on the circumference track. Can I do this without have a train crash!

Can I block one of the 2 trains that might enter the 'common' track at a single moment?...automatically??
Brian