railfan
junk collector
Yes.....correct. It is a small rugged self-contained mechanism.....hence it's affordable price.
Designing first layout, lots of questions!
- Thread starter rdemattio91
- Start date
rdemattio91
Member
Yeah turnouts are the easiest place for a train to de rail (enless u have super tight turns) so I am going to make sure I get the best stuff for my turnouts. I'll deff look into those ground throws to save some money!
Anyone else have some tips on the design? I am thinking of making the other 2 short sides 18 inches instead of 12.
Anyone else have some tips on the design? I am thinking of making the other 2 short sides 18 inches instead of 12.
rdemattio91
Member
Well guys I tweeked it some more. Changes include:
24 Inches on the left and right, 18 inches on the top and bottom.
No more elevations
Staging yard on right side
I have included the radiuses (not a word?
) of the turns
Whatcha guys think?
24 Inches on the left and right, 18 inches on the top and bottom.
No more elevations
Staging yard on right side
I have included the radiuses (not a word?
) of the turnsWhatcha guys think?
TheGloriousTachikoma
Member
Well guys I tweeked it some more. Changes include:
24 Inches on the left and right, 18 inches on the top and bottom.
No more elevations
Staging yard on right side
I have included the radiuses (not a word?
Whatcha guys think?
It seems you have not quite grasped the concept of staging. Buy John Armstrong's 'Track Planning for Realistic Operation. Read it. Redesign the layout. No offense, but as it stands your layout is just a double track loop with some sidings. If 9x8 is the space you have, double track mainline just isn't going to be practical.
I'll clarify.
What's the purpose of the railroad? Because ostensibly you are aiming for more than just running the trains around in a loop. But the point of the railroad is to move goods from one point to the other. It's all in what section of the railroad you wish to model, be it a section of mainline or branch, or a terminus. The railroad exists to move goods from one customer to the other. And since it is wholly impractical to model even alot of the average railroad's customer base, that's where staging comes into play, to act as 'the rest' of the world. And a railroad isn't going to have just a loop of double track main and interchange with another railroad on a spur. That's why I don't think 8x9 is big enough for double track, unless you make the layout a double oval, hide one loop under the benchwork to act as staging, and then simply model a busy stretch on the topside with lots of meeting and passing. Now, Robert Schleicher has drawn a 8x9' double-deck track plan with mainline running as a significant feature, but the benchwoork for it is stupifyingly complicated and costs a fortune in plywood to build, and even then more than half the track is hidden.
Now, I'm not saying that a model railroad has to be 100% prototypical. Heaven knows my plans aren't. But I've built a plan similar in design to what you have here and the scope is not terribly great.
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rdemattio91
Member
I always thought staging was just a place to store the trains you werent running, I have that book but I can't get myself to read it because it seems like too much to take in for a noob.
TheGloriousTachikoma
Member
It's alot to take in but it's the fundamentals of how railroads operate. It's like reading-up on how the internal combustion engine works before rebuilding an engine.
It comes down to a simple case of every carload has an origin and a destination and it's very rarely linear, it's like a tree mirrored at the base. Two industries right next to each other, one could be shipping a load to the next city, and the other shipping to the other side of the country. Staging represents the rest of the world that doesn't fit on the layout. That, or you can have an exposed interchange track that leads off layout, but staging is usually hidden because it's jarring to see parked trains out in the open, especially when that space can be used for scenery or other train-related things.
You should give that book another try. Maybe a little here and a little there, but it's fundamental. As I said, your layout has some big inherent flaws. One is that even if you hid the staging tracks on say, the outside of the main line behind some trees, it's still single ended and can only be entered or exited in one direction, and you still have a small loop of track.
rdemattio91
Member
I've started reading the book and I'm going to try and stick with it, got 20 pages in. I agree with alot of what your saying, but I don't think I can do alot of that with the space I have. I mean I have a 13x10 room, but I dont want a around the wall layout because I dont think I will be here very long- 1 to 2 years. I appreciate all the help, keep it coming. Eventually I will get something planned out here
Iron Horseman
Well-Known Member
Caboose brand ground throws are great! They look much better than those big honken Atlas things too.
railfan
junk collector
I'm going to check out that book at the library and copy the good parts with pencil and paper. I need the $15 to buy more track.
Mike
TheGloriousTachikoma
Member
Take your time with the book. And please don't discount a shelf layout. It would just be two screws put into the vertical joists every few feet. See if the landlord has some extra paint for the room to color match when you move-out and fill-in the screw holes. It makes the benchwork alot easier and a shelf layout usually uses the space sooo much better than a table does.
And Railfan, $15 will buy you maybe one Atlas Custom Line HO turnout. The book is a better investment.
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rdemattio91
Member
Yes but for me to have a continous shelf layout I would have a few problems because of the way my room is set up. The closet doors would be a problem, and how do I get around the entrance door?
TheGloriousTachikoma
Member
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0890246904/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used
Iain Rice likes to use lift-out bridges across doorways and other obstructions. there's alot of really good general information in that book about building shelf layouts.
railfan
junk collector
Was just kidding about library.....
.......track planning for realistic ops.....is on my must have list. Going to see if amazon sold out yet. More on the way anyhow. (I'm an N scaler....BTW)
Mike
TheGloriousTachikoma
Member
Was just kidding about library.....
(I'm an N scaler....BTW)
Mike
Oh. Well...you're dead to me then.
railfan
junk collector
I know......I tend to have that effect on people.Oh. Well...you're dead to me then.
Mike
rdemattio91
Member
Thanks, I'm going to buy that book but I really don't see how I can make it work, cause ill have to have a 4 foot lift bridge over the closet (enless I just take the doors to it off, but the old lady wont like that
) and secondly, a shelf layout cannot be very portable cause what are the chances that I have another room w/ the same dimensions I can bolt the layout too?
OCN Guy
Member
Let me explain a little about sidings, just to help. Yes, they're to hold the train, often so another train can pass by.
If you're just mesmerized by watching trains go round and round, your layout will be fine. But if you think there's a chance you'll get bored with that, then you're about to make a costly time-intensive mistake.
What do trains do? Take things from one place to another. So, a yard helps, so you can do the "early morning" car sorting.
You should have industries. What are you taking your load to? What will they need? Paper mills need a bunch of stuff. And they produce a bunch of stuff. so do steel mills. Steel mills take coal, anthracite, coke (a coal by-product), and a million other things. They produce steel, beams, wire, and a million other things.
So, you could have an industry to process the paper, if a paper plant. You could have a coal mine to fuel the steel mill, and an auto factory to take the stuff from the steel mill.
Basically, your railroad is a play featuring industries a, b & c all processing and making things from each other, or other off-layout industries.
Each industry needs sidings to drop off cars, gondolas, or tanker cars. You take cars 155, 161 and 122 and leave them at industry 1, pick up cars 173, 248, and 965 and take them to industry 2... or drop them onto a hidden staging pretending they're going to Universal Manufacturing at Attuma, Iowa or whatever. (Proprietor, Radar O'Riley).
Before you start building benchwork, all this needs to be kept in mind. And you should know what they'll be - like a treatment for a script.
take some time. Hasty work now means lots of wasted hours and dollars.
If you're just mesmerized by watching trains go round and round, your layout will be fine. But if you think there's a chance you'll get bored with that, then you're about to make a costly time-intensive mistake.
What do trains do? Take things from one place to another. So, a yard helps, so you can do the "early morning" car sorting.
You should have industries. What are you taking your load to? What will they need? Paper mills need a bunch of stuff. And they produce a bunch of stuff. so do steel mills. Steel mills take coal, anthracite, coke (a coal by-product), and a million other things. They produce steel, beams, wire, and a million other things.
So, you could have an industry to process the paper, if a paper plant. You could have a coal mine to fuel the steel mill, and an auto factory to take the stuff from the steel mill.
Basically, your railroad is a play featuring industries a, b & c all processing and making things from each other, or other off-layout industries.
Each industry needs sidings to drop off cars, gondolas, or tanker cars. You take cars 155, 161 and 122 and leave them at industry 1, pick up cars 173, 248, and 965 and take them to industry 2... or drop them onto a hidden staging pretending they're going to Universal Manufacturing at Attuma, Iowa or whatever. (Proprietor, Radar O'Riley).
Before you start building benchwork, all this needs to be kept in mind. And you should know what they'll be - like a treatment for a script.
take some time. Hasty work now means lots of wasted hours and dollars.
OCN Guy
Member
Additionally, the sorting yard (or Hump yard) for your layout is where all the cars go. referring to the previous example, two of the cars are on track one, one is on another. There's eight other cars all jammed in. Think like this.
Staging track one - 923, 155, 443, 161, 822, 823, 105
Staging track two - 122,123, 106, 514
To cut the cars you need to go to industry one, you'll have to foul one of the two mains by dropping 923 on one track, 155 on the next one, go back and drop 443 on it, etc.
4 tracks is your minimum of off track staging. it looks like you've got only two, plus mainline and passing line. In reality, sorting and cutting would jam up all overnight passage for hours.
Print out your track plan and operate it with paperclips. You'll get the idea.
Staging track one - 923, 155, 443, 161, 822, 823, 105
Staging track two - 122,123, 106, 514
To cut the cars you need to go to industry one, you'll have to foul one of the two mains by dropping 923 on one track, 155 on the next one, go back and drop 443 on it, etc.
4 tracks is your minimum of off track staging. it looks like you've got only two, plus mainline and passing line. In reality, sorting and cutting would jam up all overnight passage for hours.
Print out your track plan and operate it with paperclips. You'll get the idea.
TheGloriousTachikoma
Member
Thanks, I'm going to buy that book but I really don't see how I can make it work, cause ill have to have a 4 foot lift bridge over the closet (enless I just take the doors to it off, but the old lady wont like that
Again, it's explained in that book, on how to make the pieces lightweight and strong, and on how to line sections up. And yes, it's possible your next home will not have another room exactly the same dimensions. But it isn't difficult to engineer a shelf layout to be portable so it isn't much investment lost is you can't take it, and if the future room turns out to be bigger, then you can just expand.
