Trouble with Engines Running Smoothly


J

jloven

New Member
I am new to this forum and do not have a lot of experience with model railroading even though I enjoyed some basic layouts as a kid and now want to share the fun with my 6 year old son.
My issue is that I picked up several pieces of HO power loc track, box cars, and 3 engines on eBay for a really good deal. However, all three of the engines have the same issue. They will run on the track layout, but they are not smooth at all. If I run at full speed they make the circuit, but anything less and they stop at some point and need a manual push! I tried building a simple round layout for testing but not much better. I took my layout apart, and made sure the copper connectors on the Power Loc track were pried out and would make contact with one another. I also took my volt meter and measured to make sure I had voltage around the circuit. Is this an inherit problem with this type of track or do I have a problem with power supplies or engines or all??? Thanks for any help and advice. I would like to get into the DCC locomotives but need to get the track issue resolved so any advice on DCC is also appreciated.
 
Could you post or link to some photos of your engines? Maintenance and disassembly techniques are a bit different for each manufacturer and era. Some engines aren't worth putting DCC into (e.g. 1980's and 1990's train set engines), some older motors can't take DCC, and others will work just fine with DCC.

As for the track, hold it up under the light. Is it shiny? Like, mirror-shiny? Or is it dull? It sounds like you bought older brass track. Brass track does take more maintenance than current-day nickle-silver track (oxidiziation on brass track does not conduct electrcity, nickle-silver oxidization does), but it is still usable. I'd start off by stopping by the hobby shop and purchasing a track eraser (usually known as a "Bright Boy" (http://s.ecrater.com/stores/270107/50473b3b8cf69_270107n.jpg), and applying it and some elbow grease to the top of the rails until they shine.

Next, you'll need to check the contacts on the locomotives, starting with the wheels. Posting some macro photos of the wheels will determine what kind of cleaning treatment you need there.

Eventually, once we get the train moving smoothly around the loop, we can move onto lifting off the shell and doing some more intensive work on lubrication and commutator cleaning.
 
The stalling, if it is a strictly direct current setup (DC), will be due to oxidation or bad connections at joiners, dirty surfaces on tires or rail heads, broken internal wiring or solders, or even a bad power supply that repeatedly cycles on and off due to thermal issues.

Verify that all the joiners are clean and properly inserted, and that there are no gaps. Verify continuity in the leads between transformer and tracks. Sometimes the wires are broken and transmit intermittently. Get some Mother's Mag Wheel Cleaner or Blue Magic wheel cleaner, but not Brasso or Silvo, and thoroughly clean the top and inner faces of the rail heads, the tire running surface and the flange face.

Finally, invert the locomotive and check for the contact between the phosphor bronze or copper wipers and the metal on which it appears they are meant to make contact. Any crud there? Any bent tines or twisted ones?

IMPORTANT! Be very slow and deliberate about handling the phosphor bronze! Those things are fragile and will break just thinking about them. Ask me how I know. No, really, go ahead.....:rolleyes:
 
The vintage of most of the stuff I have is 2005-2007 so its fairly new. Since all three engines act similar, I was focusing more on the track and power supply. I also have three duplicate power supplies and have similar results with all three, which now led me to believe it was the track. I took each Power Loc piece apart and pried out the copper connector to assure a good connection, but still having issues. I have not cleaned anything so that will be my next task. Thanks for the suggestions and I will get some pictures posted. The track is not the old brass track, its the power lock nickel version which I thought would be better??
I will also invert the locomotive and check for the contact between the phosphor bronze or copper wipers and see what I find.
Also, please educate me on the basics of a DCC system? How it works and what equipment is needed and what do we gain?
thanks again.
 
Unfortunately you have possibly the absolute worst molded on roadbed track there is. Powerloc comes in two flavors. Steel rail (black roadbed) and nickel-silver rail (gray roadbed). Of the two the nickel-silver is superior. When steel rail corrodes it becomes non-conductive and a loco can't pick up power, so the track has to be cleaned often. When nickel-silver corrodes the corrosion layer is still conductive so a loco can still pick uo power, thus it has to be cleaned less often. There are two cleaning agents you can use and both require adequate ventilation due to fumes. First is lacquer thinner. It does a good job of cleaning the rails but it can be extremely hard on the ties as it attacks plastic rather aggressively. The other is isopropyl alcohol. It also does a good job and is plastic friendly. There are two common strengths available. 70% and 91%. I suggest the 91%.

Now the best advice I can give you on track is to ditch what you have and get something better. If you want sectional track I'd suggest Atlas. If you want something with the roadbed attached you can try Kato Uni-Track, Atlas True Track or at the very least Bachmann EZ-Track. In every case insist on the nickel-silver rail. It'll save you a lot of maintenance headaches later. A note on the EZ-Track. Avoid the turnouts. I would suggest using Atlas turnouts in their place. An adequate roadbed can be shimmed up beneath them and they work much better.
 
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If you have steel rails (check with a magnet) pitch it. Buy some Goo Gone and wet a paper towel and clean the nickel silver rails until the towel does not pick up dirt. Now flip the engines upside down and put power to one set of wheels to get them spinning and use a damp towel (with Goo Gone) to clean the spinning wheels until you do not get dirt on the towel. Then try the engine on the track.
 
OK, Thanks for all the advice. Based on the info provided, it sounds like I have some of the poorer track made. So rather than waste a bunch of time cleaning and soldering joints, what track do you recommend? The EZ track seems readily available, but is it that much better or should I just go with the more conventional Atlas track?
 
As for sectional track with roadbed attached, I have seen a lot of people have good luck with KATO unitrack. Bachmann does have a bit more variety, but the turnouts are terrible.

What kind of power pack(s) do you have. Low amperage in today's cheapo power packs is to blame for poor operation at slower speeds. I would suggest an MRC Tech ii or Tech 4, they are both great packs for analog (DC) operation.

I wouldn't worry about DCC until you really start getting into the hobby.

Rail Zip works well for cleaning wheels and track, as it's a non-abrasive cleaner, otherwise I would suggest a Bright Boy track eraser.
 
jloven said:
what track do you recommend? The EZ track seems readily available, but is it that much better or should I just go with the more conventional Atlas track?
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Well that's really up to you. You can use either one. The conventional snap track is cheaper but you'll be buying roadbed and ballast too. That entails putting the track down so you can mark the center line of the track then using that to put the roadbed down in the proper location then making sure the roadbed is level and nothing is sticking up out of it. Then comes the laying of the track. The EZ-Track doesn't require a separate roadbed as it already has one but it costs more. Also the turnouts stink. The Atlas turnouts work much better and will connect to the EZ-Track with no problem. You just have to put some roadbed under them. You can get pieces of cork that's used for bulletin boards. They're 6" x 6" and you can cut your own pieces and shim them up with pieces of thin cardboard or you can use cork roadbed but you'll still have to shim with cardboard.

When laying the EZ-Track sight down each piece to check if it's bowed (ends higher than the middle). Don't use the bowed pieces on your mainline. Save them for the spurs, service track and such. The reason for this is that the constant rising and falling motion of cars going over these pieces can and will cause them to uncouple. That's why I use Kadee shelf couplers. They lock together and won't slide up out of each other. My layout is all EZ-Track including the turnouts so you know how I have all this knowledge about it.
 
On the power pack, I looked at the MRC Tech 4 and there of course are different models. The 200 looks like the entry level model, then there is the 220, 260, and even the 280 which looks to be a dual controller?? I don't want to buy the 200 and wish I had spent $20 more for a better one. I found a model 280 for $60, is it worth it or should I just spend $40 on the 200? I plan on purchasing some of the EZ track (nickel silver) and selling the power loc and cheap power supplies next week. Thanks for the advice.
 
jloven said:
The 200 looks like the entry level model, then there is the 220, 260, and even the 280 which looks to be a dual controller?? I don't want to buy the 200 and wish I had spent $20 more for a better one. I found a model 280 for $60, is it worth it?
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The 280 is a dual controller and is well worth the money. I used one for several years on a previous layout that had two main lines. I ran several locos on each track with no problems. I still have it here someplace.
 
If your engine is jerky in operation, especially low speed, I would suspect dirty track and or wheels first.

I think all nickel silver track is the same, the joiners may be an issue. Not familiar with EZ track and Uni track to know how good the rail joiners are and if they loosen with age. My sectional track experience (40+ years ago) was not good and I switched to flex track to cut down on the number of joiners. I run power to each section of flex so I don't need joiners, except for alignment needs.

What is the output of your power supply? Have you measured the current draw of your engines?
 
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