Super Elevated Curves?

[Iron Horseman]

Interesting comment - us wanting to make things as real as possible.

Some people have already crossed that line. I've mentioned it before but seems like it has been years since it came up. I know a fellow who did a 100% reproduction of a Colorado narrow gauge town and mine. Sidings were the right length, buildings all properly placed. No selective compression. A very large layout with very little of anything in it. Operated it 100% realistically. One had to do stops to let off/on the switchman, allow time for the brakeman go walk the train, allow time to air up the brakes, etc, etc. No fast clock. It took 10-20 real minutes just to do a run-around move. boring boring boring. Not all that exciting to look at except from a historical point of view.

Same thing with the Train Simulator. Real time running down the track adjusting the throttle and brakes for the grades that are 10 - 12 miles apart. Running at 30-40 mph it takes forever and is equally boring.

With too realistic operation, suddenly it isn't fun anymore it is just work. There is a reason they have to pay people to do this in real life.

With too realistic scenery it is 99% trees, fields, and the like, no one wants to walk 100 feet of layout and see nothing but trees, fields, weeds, trash, etc. Especially in this day and age they would be bored after the first 3 feet. That is why much layout space is given to the creation of interesting scenes. People loading freight cars, having a picnic, going to the roach coach for lunch, hanging laundry, keeping bees, etc. In real life one would pass by those bee hives every day for years and years and years and never see someone working them.

 

[goscrewyourselves]

Not sure what you mean by joining Mark in his camp BUT, if it does get to that - may as well pack everything up and find another hobby.

 

[tootnkumin]

Not sure what you mean by joining Mark in his camp BUT, if it does get to that - may as well pack everything up and find another hobby.

Not meant to be critical of Mark in anyway, he is very "hands-on" with his modelling and gets his enjoyment from being so, kudos instead for being so. I'm not so much, but the few detailing projects I have entered into, I also have gained the same satisfaction from them. A lot, for me, comes from just handling and appreciating the efforts the makers now put into the products they make, holding them and admiring is pleasurable too. I couldn't see me wanting to swap that for something that didn't have a physical presence. Fun to experience for a short while, or a tool to achieve a permanent outcome, yes. I think it comes from holding a model that has weight that could represent in scale, the real thing reduced to that size. HO for me, seems to convey that the best, in a practical format. No reflection on your choice of N for your circumstance, they also now convey that impression.

 

[goscrewyourselves]

Tooty'n,

Gotchyu - misinterpreted what you meant by "camp", kinda took that literally and started thinking about dumb things like these people who prepare for the end of the world type camp. Been living in the US took long I think

I am pretty much in the middle then - I love to scratch build things but also really do like the look and ease of using both kits and built ups, depending on the structure. Virtual reality is okay if you want an idea of how the "real thing" will look, but nothing, and I mean nothing, will ever replace the physical 3D thing in my mind. Kits make putting the scenery together quicker and (where I am concerned) much more to scale so the "hands on" element for me is the painting and addition of "fine detail" where possible to achieve as realistic a representation of the real structure as possible. Sadly, I rarely achieve that goal but have fun trying none the less

HO is probably the best scale in terms of seeing and feeling the manufactured kit detail, no argument there. You are right however, when you say that N Scale is coming closer to that of HO where the detail of the kits is concerned. Take DPM for instance, they reproduce the vast majority of their HO kits in N scale as well, with what seems to be very little degradation of the detail. I'm sure there are others as well, DPM was the only one that came to mind.

Circumstances plus "wants" play a large part in a persons decision for scale. I loved the size of HO and being able to fairly easily handle it BUT wanted bigger trains and more scenic options, N scale was the only way I was going to get that in the space I have available. Now I have played with N Scale though, it has become the same as for any scale - no matter how much space/room you have, you always want more

 

[RBMNfan]

Some people have already crossed that line. I've mentioned it before but seems like it has been years since it came up. I know a fellow who did a 100% reproduction of a Colorado narrow gauge town and mine. Sidings were the right length, buildings all properly placed. No selective compression. A very large layout with very little of anything in it. Operated it 100% realistically. One had to do stops to let off/on the switchman, allow time for the brakeman go walk the train, allow time to air up the brakes, etc, etc. No fast clock. It took 10-20 real minutes just to do a run-around move. boring boring boring. Not all that exciting to look at except from a historical point of view.

Same thing with the Train Simulator. Real time running down the track adjusting the throttle and brakes for the grades that are 10 - 12 miles apart. Running at 30-40 mph it takes forever and is equally boring.

With too realistic operation, suddenly it isn't fun anymore it is just work. There is a reason they have to pay people to do this in real life.

With too realistic scenery it is 99% trees, fields, and the like, no one wants to walk 100 feet of layout and see nothing but trees, fields, weeds, trash, etc. Especially in this day and age they would be bored after the first 3 feet. That is why much layout space is given to the creation of interesting scenes. People loading freight cars, having a picnic, going to the roach coach for lunch, hanging laundry, keeping bees, etc. In real life one would pass by those bee hives every day for years and years and years and never see someone working them.

That's sort of what I am trying to create. Except it's freelance. But I operate like a real railroad. The brakemen will be upset if you fail to stop for them to get off and on.

All my turnouts are hand thrown.

Residents appreciate the bells and whistles so they can get off the track.

My railroad only models a town and a city.
Highballing on the mainline gets old fast to me. With sound I like to 'work' the train.
I live in an area where I see trains all the time. Unless you happen to catch a glance of the Acela express most trains are slow and working the industry's.

I did design the layout for several different types of operation. I don't think I could live with an exact reproduction.

Modeling the roaring 20's
President of the Lancaster Central Railroad
President of the Western Maryland Railway

 

[goscrewyourselves]

Horseman,

Sorry mate, missed your post (above). I completely agree with your "method" of creating a layout - track with a lot of "individual" scenes independent of one another but linked by the railroad.

I have never seen a 100% realistic reproduction of a particular area as a layout but would think that it would get very dull and uninteresting very quickly.

I do like my scenes to be as realistic as possible, for that scene but also agree that if we were to do scenery to represent an actual area then, in my case, it would be nothing but a river, a road, the railway (fairly straight) and a bunch of corn fields with a house or two scattered here and there and little else. Actually, if I were to do it to scale (no compression) I'd have a track, river, road one house and one field - very boring indeed.

Even though I don't go much for "industry" on my layouts, they do provide the opportunity for creating a scene in contrast to the "run of the mill" towns, and that is a good thing. One of the reasons I try to include a lake in my layouts is for a scene that is a little different.

Anyway, the point is as you said - you can take things too far and even though it maybe 100% realistic, it is also most probably 100% boring for most people as well.

 

[Iron Horseman]

That's sort of what I am trying to create. Except it's freelance. But I operate like a real railroad. The brakemen will be upset if you fail to stop for them to get off and on.

I don't mind having to make a stop to pick up a brakeman, or back up to get the rear flagman, or do any of the real required stops. What I don't want to do is spend 10 real minutes doing it. Likewise I don't want to sit there for 10-20 minutes to get all the pretend air into the pretend cylinders while the pretend brakeman walks the train. I've got too much real stuff to do, rather than wasting time waiting for pretend activities.