Scorpius wireless digital train system

[diburning]

Not everyone can install a decoder. There are some people (there's at least one here) who can't. (I can personally attest to that as I'm the one who installs them for him!)

Mac and PC is not a good comparison. Mac had low market share due to their proprietary firmware, whereas Windows was more open-platform. Mac has a larger market share today due to them selling a "lifestyle" rather than a computer. That is why there are very few if any Macs running as a server operating system.

If it took 15 years for DCC to tip the scale (it took about the same time for Mac), then do you think you'll have enough capital to survive the first 15 years or so of poor sales until it takes off? (that is, assuming history repeats itself).

I am glad that you will be offering DCC compatibility. If the firmware is upgradable, then maybe you can do a transition phase where it is compatible with DCC until the product tips the scales and gets enough market share to abandon DCC completely (similar to how back during the VHS to DVD transition, most DVD players had a VHS slot, but these days, you can hardly find a DVD player with a VHS deck that can also cross-record from one format to the other)

Although, it may just be a good idea to have the Scorpius decoders use the NMRA 8-pin plug, and/or the JST 9-pin plug/socket. If Scorpius and DCC could be interchangeable as far as decoder installation, it will save the manufacturers a lot of headache and it will make support of your product a lot easier. And, it may also be a good idea to keep the DCC compatibility in there permanently so that someone with a Scorpius decoder can run DCC, and someone with a DCC locomotive can run on Scorpius with an adapter or something. For example, most if not all DVD players can play VCDs, an obsolete format that was short lived.

 

[injectorman]

All taken on board

For the record you could run a Scorpius/DCC decoder on either sytems but Scorpius runs pure 12V DC on the rails therefore a DCC loco cannot run on a Scorpius track.

Out of interest a simple way to run a wireless loco on DC would be simply to turn the DC cab to full (12V DC on rails) and put on the Scorpius loco. Or you can making a plug up that simply completes the circuit and passes 12V DC direct to rails.

Also note you can place a Scorpius loco on a DCC system and get throttle functions at least, (because Scorpius just uses the PWM for power and simply ignores the data) ie loco can go, stop, has traction control, consists, lights, sound etc (but no ability to change track from the controller as you can do from Scorpius controller.) All this is WITHOUT DCC protocols added to the decoder. Perhaps this is useful.

Rick

 

[LotoQuestions]

Scorpius

Scorpius - at least it is an interesting name .............

Reminds me of the kid that was going to revolutionize DCC uncoupling ... whatever happened to him ????? Note that there are an increasing number of somewhat workable solutions for this, none worldbeating.

Some more studying of DCC and what some DCC decoders can provide when run on DC and the current state of the art in large scale MRR radio control and someone might be able to put together a workable system design for this product that would answer the question of its suitability and practicality.

take care ,,,, ken

 

[tankist]

i'm not against new technology, nor do i think everything needs to be strictly compatible , sometimes we need to ditch the old to get better. and having another player in market is nothing but very good for us, BUT! i must be on wrong page or terribly missing something...

OP, i visited the forum link, i visited your website. i do not see how needs of slot car enthusiast are 100% aligned with MRR - turnout detection? it is block occupancy detection between turnouts that is needed.
i do not see how the offering today fulfills MRR needs (lack of buttons).

you emphasize simplicity, but i do not see how your offering is that much simpler. at the end of the day advanced user who wants digital layout with detection and signaling will still have to plan and configure his detection blocks, turnout positions, signal heads etc in software like JMRI or train controller (which don't support your hardware). and it is the user who will need to program any route logic or automated tasks. coming up with plan - that's where the bulk of complexity is, wiring is already simple enough.


PS
you resorting to demagogic wordplay of same title vs same media (in your console game example) is really contributing very little to discussion.
how about leave the "DVD vs VHS" fluff out instead provide a structured overview of your concept system and comparison of features to existing system, identifying and substantiating the benefits (ie you say "simplier! simplier! simplier" but not really showing the simplicity).

thanks in advance

 

[ICG/SOU]

So, if I understand it, your trains will be powered on 12 VDC from the track, yet controlling the trains will be through a wireless throttle/command station. Sounds simple enough.

However, keeping a constant 12 VDC will still require a power bus to the track. Will it require electrical blocks like regular DC layouts? Is 12 VDC enough to handle multiple locomotives in the same block? I ask because I don't have a DC layout, and honestly don't know.

 

[injectorman]

i'm not against new technology, nor do i think everything needs to be strictly compatible , sometimes we need to ditch the old to get better. and having another player in market is nothing but very good for us, BUT! i must be on wrong page or terribly missing something...

OP, i visited the forum link, i visited your website. I do not see how needs of slot car enthusiast are 100% aligned with MRR - turnout detection? it is block occupancy detection between turnouts that is needed.
i do not see how the offering today fulfills MRR needs (lack of buttons).

you emphasize simplicity, but i do not see how your offering is that much simpler. at the end of the day advanced user who wants digital layout with detection and signaling will still have to plan and configure his detection blocks, turnout positions, signal heads etc in software like JMRI or train controller (which don't support your hardware). and it is the user who will need to program any route logic or automated tasks. coming up with plan - that's where the bulk of complexity is, wiring is already simple enough.


PS
you resorting to demagogic wordplay of same title vs same media (in your console game example) is really contributing very little to discussion.
how about leave the "DVD vs VHS" fluff out instead provide a structured overview of your concept system and comparison of features to existing system, identifying and substantiating the benefits (ie you say "simplier! simplier! simplier" but not really showing the simplicity).

thanks in advance

Analogy to game consoles, records/CD/MP4 is valid because its not based on speculation but actual proof of consumer behaviour. Thats the way I see it anyhow.

I am providing a structured view slowly over many posts, there is simply too much to explain in 20 odd posts even.

Defintion of occupancy detection is simply the system knowing the whereabouts of a given loco. Same thing. With Scorpius every turnout automatically gives free occupancy or ID detection, without a Loconet type bus. So this is far advanced no? Keep your trains perfectly in sync is a good thing no? Imagine how useful that would be for signalling? And much more.

Can some people see the massive possibilities that come with a totally wireless local network with or even without a DCC overlay?

Ive got a program in mind too that can estimate where the loco is between turnouts. So essentially I can know the exact position of every loco updated 50 times a second.

Our turnout controller also doubles as a auto reverser, with the ability detect loco, swap polarity, etc.

So next that power diagram I promised as that is simple but needs explanation.


Rick

 

[injectorman]

So, if I understand it, your trains will be powered on 12 VDC from the track, yet controlling the trains will be through a wireless throttle/command station. Sounds simple enough.

However, keeping a constant 12 VDC will still require a power bus to the track. Will it require electrical blocks like regular DC layouts? Is 12 VDC enough to handle multiple locomotives in the same block? I ask because I don't have a DC layout, and honestly don't know.

Yes a power bus will always be needed on bigger layouts.
Will not require electrical blocks. The Scorpius auto reverser has a PWM driver to power that section of track.

Rick

 

[tankist]

your opposition to DCC overlay is understandable - you trying to push something absolutely non compatible. but there is no need to blame some obscure complexity - "DCC for me has buried itself in complexity and politics.". that complexity is your as engineer to deal with. as user i care little how complex it might be inside as long as it is abstracted from me (and DCC is abstructed very well at the moment).

Can some people see the massive possibilities that come with a totally wireless local network with or even without a DCC overlay?

possibilities are there, yes, but we are at page 3 of this thread and still questions like Trey's come up. it is unclear is what and how these posibilities are implemented in your project.

...
Defintion of occupancy detection is simply the system knowing the whereabouts of a given loco. Same thing. With Scorpius every turnout automatically gives free occupancy or ID detection free, without a Loconet type bus. So this is far advanced no? Keep your trains perfectly in sync is a good thing no? Imagine how useful that would be for signalling?
...

exact location can be useful, but it is not as important for signaling. ocupance detection happens not on turnouts but on segments in between them, once loco is on turnout its to late to do anything . and whether the loco 50cm away or 2 m away from TO boundry protecting signal matters little too, signal is still red protecting the occupied block. i suspect this mentality comes as inheritance from slot car origin of your project .
so, signaling - where is the logic accepting segment occupancy input , TO position input and driving the signals implemented, what software? and as far as hardware i seen the pistol grip. in its current form it is very very far from MRR need. needs looots more buttons at the least.


to sums things up please share items listed below.

1. show the controller. one shown above is completely unusable for MRR in its current form. include user manual or any similar technical document you basing your development on.
2. show mobile decoder applicable to MRR. one shown seems to have to few of function outputs.include user manual or any similar technical document.
3. show the stationary decoder. include user manual or any similar technical document.
4. show the CTC/automation software, possibly with sample layout and operating description.

by technical document i mean something like manual for team digital SIC24 module for example(compatible with loco-net BTW). as you see inside the document is scrupulous description of all 3 modes of device operation, functionality, configuration and no fluff like "easy configuration in 10 seconds".

if this was listed i must have missed all of it

reagards and good luck on your project

 

[injectorman]

your opposition to DCC overlay is understandable - you trying to push something absolutely non compatible. but there is no need to blame some obscure complexity - "DCC for me has buried itself in complexity and politics.". that complexity is your as engineer to deal with. as user i care little how complex it might be inside as long as it is abstracted from me (and DCC is abstructed very well at the moment).

Agreed, the complexity inside is not an issue. I see the complexity in actually learning how to tie signals, block detection, controll buses, configuring and all the buttons amongst other things.

Seems data on rails is overcrowded soon after it began. Im blown away that each detection system needs to be in essence its own powered system with its own wire all the way back to the unit, THEN all the way back to the PC or controll unit via control bus. Scorpius just needs continuous power everywhere with a simple LED in the track broadcasting a unique ID at each block point.

And then add in signals and the wiring at this stage must be mindblowing for a full on DCC system.

Has anyone got a diagram of a full on DCC system with all the bells and whistles for a look?

possibilities are there, yes, but we are at page 3 of this thread and still questions like Trey's come up. it is unclear is what and how these posibilities are implemented in your project.

Like I said just ask. in the meantime each few days I do add crucial information in the order of importance. The data network is clearly explained in post number 1. Power is simple. Agreed its into the implementation stage of explanation that I will slowly but surely post.

exact location can be useful, but it is not as important for signaling. ocupance detection happens not on turnouts but on segments in between them, once loco is on turnout its to late to do anything . and whether the loco 50cm away or 2 m away from TO boundry protecting signal matters little too, signal is still red protecting the occupied block. i suspect this mentality comes as inheritance from slot car origin of your project .
so, signaling - where is the logic accepting segment occupancy input , TO position input and driving the signals implemented, what software? and as far as hardware i seen the pistol grip. in its current form it is very very far from MRR need. needs looots more buttons at the least.

Ok gotcha. In that case my solution is about 3 times easier/quicker to install and Im guesing a lot cheaper to purchase, of course as soon as I figure out a plan for a full on DCC system with everything I can do a cost comparison.

Ive just had a look at the BDL16 and RD2 detection system, I must say it looks like a lot of additional boxes and wiring, track isolation and cost.

One Scorpius Turnout Controller can be many things, I can use it to drive things, sense things, send and receive dat, its a wireless Phidget board in essence. One of these units could run 8 LEDs for around, ie 8 blocks for around $69.95 and its wireless comms. So no Loconet needed (saving?) no BDL16 (saving?) No RD2s (saving?) add in wiring, plugs, time, depreciation, and what about moving the track?

So how would it work. The brains or signalling and block control is configured on the set up program.
All loco block movement reported to PC constantly.
The Loco can detect the LED installed in the tracks ID. It sends a signal that is picked up by the pc saying that Loco 9 has just entered block number 41. Or equally has left block 40 if needed.

The PC sends a command to stop or slow train if needed. And simultaneously sends message to the signals concerned to change lights as requested.
One Scorpius signal unit could run 8 sets of signals for around $79.95.

How to install the detection unit? Jump power from the rails to power the Scorpius unit, easy quick, close. The LEDS are already supplied on fly leads, just install with some hot glue, can be hidden under track. Thats it? Yes.

How to install Scorpius signals? Each unit comes with 32 wires, amber, green, red, eart=4 x 8 lots = 32 outputs. No loconet type bus required.

to sums things up please share items listed below.

1. show the controller. one shown above is completely unusable for MRR in its current form. include user manual or any similar technical document you basing your development on.
2. show mobile decoder applicable to MRR. one shown seems to have to few of function outputs.include user manual or any similar technical document.
3. show the stationary decoder. include user manual or any similar technical document.
4. show the CTC/automation software, possibly with sample layout and operating description.

by technical document i mean something like manual for team digital SIC24 module for example(compatible with loco-net BTW). as you see inside the document is scrupulous description of all 3 modes of device operation, functionality, configuration and no fluff like "easy configuration in 10 seconds".

if this was listed i must have missed all of it

reagards and good luck on your project

Manual a long way off.
Decoder shown is 3 amps. MRR would start at 0.5 amp and be very small.
Decoder (stationary) in post 1. MRR would be similar.
Software will start when the MRR version starts.
Configuration is exactly as posted, its 6 steps, and it only takes as long as it takes you to press the buttons. All this fine detail will come in due process.
Its a matter of keeping the horse in front of the cart.

So can anyone think of an easier, cheaper, better way for block detection and signalling, or anything else that runs off a control bus than 100% wireless?

Can anyonw think of an easier cheaper power system?



Rick

 

[Cjcrescent]

All taken on board

For the record you could run a Scorpius/DCC decoder on either system but Scorpius runs pure 12V DC on the rails therefore a DCC loco cannot run on a Scorpius track.

...
Rick

Yall forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

This is incorrect Rick. Just about every DCC decoder on the market NOW has DC compatibility, the early decoders didn't. It does have limited controllability when sound decoders are involved without a special controller, but the basics are there. You can control basic speed, direction and lights with no problem from a DC pack.

Don't know about mike wolf, huh? I would strongly suggest you learn. If for no other reason, to avoid his "mistakes".

Also you've made some assumptions about the hobby that are just not true. Example, all Model Railroaders have or want a PC connected to the layout to assist in running trains. No, I would have to say that a good majority don't want this. Another example, I use a PC for JMRI's Decoder Pro, but nothing else, nor do I have a desire for the PC to do anything else.

I would have suggest that you do a lot more research on the hobby itself before you think of launching this project commercially.

 

[kbkchooch]

Another example, I use a PC for JMRI's Decoder Pro, but nothing else, nor do I have a desire for the PC to do anything else.

Add me to that list! I love JMRI for programming, speed matching, and keeping an inventory, but when I run trains, I want to walk around with them. I'm not luggin a PC to 3 different rooms!

 

[tankist]

Seems data on rails is overcrowded soon after it began.

whatever signal happens on rail as overcrowded and compllex as it may be this is only engineering consern that i as user don't care about. at the moment DCC system can easily run and control dozens of trains , signals and turnouts at once. it works and it still has room to expand. bulk of the work is coming up with approach what and how to implement given modules. after that its just conecting everything per plan.

not that there is no room for improved next gen system

Im blown away that each detection system needs to be in essence its own powered system with its own wire all the way back to the unit, THEN all the way back to the PC or controll unit via control bus....

it doesn't have to be. for example stationary decoder can be powered of rails and get its comands from same rails not connected to anything.

Can anyonw think of an easier cheaper power system?

again, yes i can .
and perhaps you will provide advancement. but it seems not just yet - at the moment you not offering full solution (i understand it is work in progress)

meanwhile, as Carey suggested above, i think you need to look closer at current state of things and understand how things work and what is needed in this hobby. if you can get on voice (skype , google) some evening , morning to you) i can share the little i know about the subj - i'm working on full PC controled solution with block and TO detection and later signaling (phase 2)

good luck

 

[injectorman]

Yall forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

This is incorrect Rick. Just about every DCC decoder on the market NOW has DC compatibility, the early decoders didn't. It does have limited controllability when sound decoders are involved without a special controller, but the basics are there. You can control basic speed, direction and lights with no problem from a DC pack.

Im fully aware DCC can run on DC as digital slot cars can run on DC.
So what I said was correct, that a DCC loco cannot run on a Scorpius track.

Don't know about mike wolf, huh? I would strongly suggest you learn. If for no other reason, to avoid his "mistakes".

My point was whoever Mike Wolf was he had the guts to try it. Ill think you'll agree this has a totally different hardware architecture, not trying to add yet another patch to DCC.
Mistake? If DCC is overlayed DCC on Scorpius how can there be any 'mistake'?

Also you've made some assumptions about the hobby that are just not true. Example, all Model Railroaders have or want a PC connected to the layout to assist in running trains. No, I would have to say that a good majority don't want this. Another example, I use a PC for JMRI's Decoder Pro, but nothing else, nor do I have a desire for the PC to do anything else.

Sorry I never said this either!

So you do use a PC, cool

With Scorpius you do NOT have to use a PC either! It was one of the key design principles.
I can use my controller to configure any component be it any stationary or mobile decoder wirelessly in 30 seconds. And no its not fluff

Back to the laptop, its a powerful cheap tool with huge screen, usb ports etc etc. If anyone chooses not to use one thats fine by me

I would have suggest that you do a lot more research on the hobby itself before you think of launching this project commercially.

Always researching. I promise Ill do even more if you read my posts correctly....deal?

Seriously though I do find digital trains fascinating and Im excited about slowly but surely reconfiguring Scorpius hardware to specifically suit trains.



Rick

 

[injectorman]

Add me to that list! I love JMRI for programming, speed matching, and keeping an inventory, but when I run trains, I want to walk around with them. I'm not luggin a PC to 3 different rooms!

Thats good then because with Scorpius you use a light weight lap top that you seldom need. Wireless, no cables, runs on battery

In fact you only need it once to flash the IDs on the various decoders!
Everything AFTER that else is optional Good or no?

Scorpius is designed for middle to top end users so PC connection IS mandatory. Thats all I said ever implied or wrote

Not sure why some folk think you need a PC for basic operation?
But Im here to clarify

Rick

 

[injectorman]

Wiring diagram for a Scorpius stationary decoder.


This multipurpose unit can be reflashed in 30 seconds to be the following:
a) Turnout controller
b) Block detector
c) Signal driver
d) Accessory driver
e) Auto reverser

Heres a look at the turnout controller:

This particular design here is good for running 2 turnouts say A and B
It has LED drivers 2 per turnout, one can be used for block detection, the other for turnout control.

It has 2 solenoid drivers per turnout, move solenoid left, right.

It has 2 liven frog drivers, one per turnout.

It has 2 unique LED IDs per channel (2 channels, A & B) (to run 2 seperate turnout controllers)

However I propose to make the specialised stationary decoders as follows.

A) TURNOUT CONTROLLER: How does it work? Photodiode in installed in train chassis detects
any LED ID and then Loco sends change or no change track request according to your preset route or you can trigger a track change on your
controller and trigger any amount of other preset commands.

B) DETECTION: Has 16 LEDs only. Each one gives off a unique code.
Place up to 16 LEDs anywhere on your system to define blocks.
So thats all it does is have 16 LEDs attached, nothing else.

Hows it work? Loco detects unique code at every LED placement and sends message saying "hey Im loco 19 and I just entered block number 45"
From there it will perform any function you can think of, operate any signal(s), accessory like a boom gate, give priority over other locos, auto stop.

Another cool function is being able to program the locos route by actually using the track change button on the controller. Put system into learn mode and do one circuit of the track. Each turnout controller can remember the preferred route of 128 locos. Example loco number 4 likes to go that route so it automatically operates turnout. Oh here comes loco number 4, it likes to go straight ahead, so a 'no track change' command is sent and solenoid operated accordingly.

Liven frog, no stranded locos anymore. Polarity is switched according to wether the loco goes straight ahead or to go straight.

C) SIGNALS. Simply operates up to 3 lights on each signal. Up to 8 signals can be operated from one signal controller. It simply receives commands from the laptop and switches signals as requested.

How does it work? Signals are switched according to the program, eg LED number 56 means:
a) Switch signal number 87 to red/red
b) Switch signal number 86 to this....
c) Switch signal number 85 to that....

Can also trigger any other function you can think off. Multiple events can be triigered simultaneously by any LED or by using button on controller.

For the record any LED can trigger ANY number of commands in any component. There is no limitations on any possible logic with Scorpius. Do anything you can think off.


D) ACCESSORY DRIVER Has mosfet drivers to operate any gadget at any voltage. The power can reconfigured from 12V downwards in increments of 1%. eg 50% = 6V DC
Can power up to 4 accesories independently.

How does it work? Configure commands on laptop. Sample: When LED number 48 is detected it sends a command to boom gate number 2 to close. when it detects LED number 49 it opens.

E) AUTO REVERSER Is simply the turnout controller reconfigured.

How does it work?
It allows train to enter reversing loop in the correct polarity, loco sees LED in track before it leaves block and sends auto reverse command. Here the power to the rails is momentarily cut, polarity swapped and then block repowered.

So the Scorpius product list will eventually be just the following items.

1) Mobile decoder (loco)
Will be available initially in 0.5A version.
2) Stationary decoder for turnout AND auto reverser AND accessories. Does 3 jobs.
3) Stationary decoder block detection
4) Signal driver unit, up to 8 signals per unit
5) Wireless controller
6) Dongle
7) Light board
8) Sound board
7) Software for the following:

a) Controller config set up
b) Controller test program
c) Turnout config
d) Auto reverser config
e) Accessories driver config
f) Mobile decoder config
g) Light config
h) Sound config
i) Block detection config
j) Signalling config
k) Inventory

Have I missed any software needed by anyone?


So 8 lots of hardware are proposed and 11 lots of software should do it.


Rick

 

[injectorman]

Hi Guys,
Heres the power diagram I promised:

As you can see simpler than even DC


Rick

 

[kbkchooch]

Question. Why all the blinking lights? I saw the video of the Scorpius slot car system on Youtube. I noticed alot of flashing LED's, I assume controlling lane changers and scoring loops.
I hope you can see that serious modelers are not going to tolerate the track flashing like a landing strip while trains are running! You have got to make it invisible!

 

[injectorman]

whatever signal happens on rail as overcrowded and compllex as it may be this is only engineering consern that i as user don't care about. at the moment DCC system can easily run and control dozens of trains , signals and turnouts at once. it works and it still has room to expand. bulk of the work is coming up with approach what and how to implement given modules. after that its just conecting everything per plan.

not that there is no room for improved next gen system

One wonders why Digitrax made Loconet. Loconet obviously offers more control when combining block detection, signals, turnouts etc.

Heres an extract off the net I just found

QUOTE
I am going to be using a lot of LocoNet devices: a DCS100 Command Station and perhaps a DB150 booster, a UR92 for wireless throttles (and possibly some wired throttles connected via UP5 panels), an SE8C (or two) for signals, multiple (perhaps six) PM42 circuit breakers and BDL168 occupancy detectors, a number of DS64 switch controllers, and a computer connected via an RR-CirKits LocoBuffer USB. This is more than the twenty devices that would make an LNRP recommended, and so I plan to break things up a bit for ease of troubleshooting and to minimize problems from defective wiring.
UNQUOTE

Source: www.sumidacrossing.org/SumidaCrossing/ControlBus.html

Your thoughts on how some folk set up their systems?

This picture below off the same page shows a Digitrax set up.

With all respect to the directors of Digitrax Im merely using their example as they seem to be a bigger company with a good reputation.

So does one thing smack you in the face about this set up?

it doesn't have to be. for example stationary decoder can be powered of rails and get its comands from same rails not connected to anything.

Understood thanks.

again, yes i can .
and perhaps you will provide advancement. but it seems not just yet - at the moment you not offering full solution (i understand it is work in progress)

Thanks, Ive added a few posts overnight to show some more detail. I think you will find the full solution is getting closer.

meanwhile, as Carey suggested above, i think you need to look closer at current state of things and understand how things work and what is needed in this hobby. if you can get on voice (skype , google) some evening , morning to you) i can share the little i know about the subj - i'm working on full PC controled solution with block and TO detection and later signaling (phase 2)

Thanks, I would like to take you up on that offer


Rick

 

[injectorman]

Question. Why all the blinking lights? I saw the video of the Scorpius slot car system on Youtube. I noticed alot of flashing LED's, I assume controlling lane changers and scoring loops.
I hope you can see that serious modelers are not going to tolerate the track flashing like a landing strip while trains are running! You have got to make it invisible!

Relax, that was just something the owner of the shop centre used so people could identify where the lane changers were. Funny enough when I used that track not once do I remember actually seeing them!

 

[injectorman]

Heres the Scorpius equivalent of the propriety system shown above with 2 power zones, 3 blocks, signal control and block occupancy detection, a LAN network and a power bus. Note, no isolation is needed between A1 and A2, so no A2 is needed.

I forgot to label the second wireless controller and label block A and block B.

I have hpwever shown the mobile decoder and turnout controller and we just reach 10 items instead of 20!

Now an existing system once again for comparison....

Also practically no data cabling, associated hardware and installation time.

Cost schedule:
1) 2 x Power supply 12V DC 5A @ $99.00 ea.
2) 1 x Laptop @ $499.00 ea.
3) 1 x Dongle @ $99.00 ea.
4) 2 x Wireless controller @ $199.00 ea.
5) 1 x Turnout controller @ $69.00 ea.
6) 1 x Mobile Decoder @ $39.00 ea.
7) 1 x Signal Driver @ $79.00 ea.
8) 1 x Block Occupncy Detector @ $69.00 ea.
9) 1 x Auto reverser (does 2) @ $69.00 ea.
10)1 x Power Bus cable, connectors. @ $ 50.00 ea.

Total for entire system not including signals themselves, track or rolling stock, sound or light boards.
$1570.00

Now if someone could do a price comparison on a DCC system please?
The system must have this:

1)2 power zones, say one power supply 12V DC 5A, allow $99 for the unit. Now add price of one power booster approx 5A?
2)Laptop allow $499
3)Loco net or equivalent with necesary hardware.
4)2 x wireless controller 2.4GHz and receivers
5)1 X Stationary decoder for turnout control
6)1 x Decoder 0.5A rating
7)Signal control unit(s) for 16 signals
8)Block occupancy detector for 16 zones.
9)Auto reversers for 2 blocks.
10)Power bus and connectors $50 allowance.

Im guessing close to $2500?


Rick