RR tie retaining walls


rhoward

rhoward

S.L.O.&W. Trainman
Do any you have any photos or know of any online sites that show large wooden retaining wall construction on prototype railroads? I have a large area that is nearly vertical from one level to the one above that I hope to use a retaining wall of some kind on. If it is remotely feasible I would like to scratchbuild a wooden (RR Tie) type of wall. (Don't tell me I should tear the area out and start over..... that ain't gonna happen. It was an area I originally did over 20 years ago and changing it would mean destroying everything I have done so far!)
 
How about any Model railroad magazines. There's usually a lot of photo's in there. Just get on the internet & reference that subject. That's what I usually do to find a certain item. Backdrops.com usually has some people's train layouts on their forum that shows a lot of stuff you can search for a certain item. You can do the same thing on this forum.

Larry
 
I'd suggest looking for photos of the Denver & Rio Grande (now the Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad), especially those along the famous "High Line." There's some retaining walls there that are typical of the era.
 
Larry said:
How about any Model railroad magazines. There's usually a lot of photo's in there. Just get on the internet & reference that subject. That's what I usually do to find a certain item. Backdrops.com usually has some people's train layouts on their forum that shows a lot of stuff you can search for a certain item. You can do the same thing on this forum.

Larry
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Hi Larry. I did that for about 4 hours before I asked here. All I seem to get is directions on building home retaining walls using railroad ties. Oh and don't use them for your garden cause of the creasote......

RCH, thanks I'll try that.
 
Ray,
Check out http://www.hilfiker.com/crib/ to see a number of different types and application for crib walls, which is really what you want to construct. Railroad ties for crib walls were made pretty much the way it shows the concrete crib walls on Hilfiker's site. They fell out of favor very quickly by the 1890's due to the cost of maintenance and the inherent instability of an unanchored wall. A cut stone, rubble, or concrete crib wall would be the most likely choice for a long, nearly vertical wall, depending on you era.
 
One recommendation I have on this subject, do not build a vertical wall, but rather somewhere int he range of 85 degree's. Its rare to see anythign with any height to be perfectly straight up.

I myself, though, would recommend keeping tie walls small, like this.
 
Thanks for the input folks! I should have mentioned that we are talking 1925 here. Josh, there is no room to do an 85% slope. I would love to be able to do that. I built the trackage in this part of the layout back in the mid 1980's. You know, back when I knew everything...... To do what should be done I would effectively have to destroy over 1/3rd. of my layout and start over (the part that I have almost finished with scenery). That, I ain't gonna do! It would mean totally rebuilding the yard at Hopewell Junction, removal of the section housing Bare Mountain, and at the other end losing Cooley's Blue Ice and the Mountain......... Nope ain't gonna happen!

I really don't have a good photo of the problematic area but you can see it as the lower wall on the far left of this one:

SceneryByYard1w.png


The two tracks in front of it are the lead and the drill track of the yard. There are three levels of track in this spot one right above the other. On the second level I was able to use greenery to cover the wall and give it an optical illusion of being at a slope. That won't work on the lower wall (not enough room).

So, I started building a standard reinforced RR Tie crib retaining wall last night. After sleeping most of the night, I now think my best choice is to rip out the vertical part of the scenery and insert cut stone walls as far back onto the plywood as possible. Gonna be fun as there are two Tortoises right behind the area that has to be removed. I'll save the wood for someplace else.

Thanks!
 
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SpaceMouse said:
I agree with your assessment. Even back in your day, they knew wood rots. They would have bone stone.
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Yep! Wood would have been done on areas less than 5 or 6 foot and where it was well drained (like on the area in the photo on the right. The hydrolic pressure on anything taller than that would be horrific. The area to be removed is wire screen reinforced..... Should be a .......... to get removed without damaging other stuff. Oh well, if I only knew as much as I did 25 years ago!:( :( ;)

BTW Chip, I just started using Stevia this morning. I think it tastes much better than Aspertame. I gave up aspertame several months ago and was using honey in my coffee. Unfortunately my sugar crept up 10 points this last blood test. So, back on the proper diet and hopefully the switch to stevia will help. Also started taking a Probiotic as well on the advise of a friend of mine who is a Chiropractor.
 
The PB will help, also supplementing with fiber. This is a really cheap but effective way to control blood sugar, weight & hunger. Here's an article I wrote on it, Demystifying Fiber

Stevia will help a lot, but keep in mind artificial sweetners still have some insulin response. They fool the body into thinking sugar has been taken into the body. (So all you people drinking diet sodas to lose weight, it is actually having the opposite effect.)
 
Good article, Chip! Yep I've been on a high fiber diet for 15 years. (Well I'm supposed to be anyway.) Lots of fresh fruits, veggies, and whole grain stuff.

I gave up the aspertame after reading some articles you suggested in a rant back a few months ago. Several chronic problems including psoriasis, and arthritis got considerably better (not cured, but better) after I stopped using the stuff. I also feel better generally.

Thanks!
 
Ray,
Chooch has some cut stone walls that would be just right for your area and should make it relatively painless...at least once you get through with the painful part. :) Tie cribbing might make sense if you could change the angle of repose of that wall but otherwise, cut stone or concrete, wel drained, makes the most sense.
 
Absolutely, Jim. I have already done the major surgery needed on the area. I will post photos as i go along. I will go with the Woodland Scenics Cut Stone retaining walls as I already have a package of 3 in stock, and I know my LHS will have the rest. I check them tomorrow.

I went down this afternoon and looked at what I did last night and thought, "nope! wood is not going to work for a 25 foot tall vertical retaining wall."
 
Alrighty then! Here's what I'm doing. I cut into the old (as in 25 year old) scenery first using a dremel with a large cutoff disc. Then just using a pry bar found that the scenery came out quite easily. This left a hole that looked like this:
WallReconstruction1w.png


After cleaning up the plaster and chopping away at some ballast, I cut the WS Cut stone retaining wall sections to fit. Put in place and decided I didn't like where I put them. I also found that while my 85 foot passenger cars and the largest loco would go through without hittine tha wall that I wanted a little more room if possible. The wall didn't look right stuck under the plywood so I cut and patched the retaining wall sections then notvhed them at the top so they would fit into the plywood. At this point, they look like this:

WallReconstruction2w.png


A close up of how I notched them using a band saw (Although I was a Vocal Music teacher, I still know quite a lot about band......).

WallReconstruction3w.png


I should be able to re ballast the tracks at the top of the wall and have it look right. Tomorrow in my wanderings I will pick upk two more packages of the WS Cut Stone Walls and get the area roughed in. Thanks for all your input folks!
 
Great pics, Ray, and it looks like the demolishment phase wasn't as bad as feared. Notching those wall into the upper deck plywood wil make them look just about right when you get them all in place and painted or stained. I saw Steve did a similar wall and he put a small black wrought iron safety fence along the top. I thought it gave it sort of a finishing touch.
 
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SpaceMouse said:
I hope you're going to paint them before you glue them. :D
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Paint??? No, No, No! They will be stained in place with several washes of WS stone colors followed by a thin wash of India ink to give shading. Then some weathering with Bragdon Powders. The seam lines on the three already in place will be tastefully covered with shrubs that grow all by themselves here in the Finger Lakes. ;) ;) :D
 
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