Questions on track purchase


J

JackLeg

New Member
I am planning a shelf/ceiling layout and am trying to figure out what track to use. I guess I'll start by listing my goals for the layout, as I think they may be relevant. I am not set on a layout yet, but my bench work will consist of a 4-5" shelf encircling a 12x20' room. I am not decided on corner radius as it will depend on the track used. I want to run modern inter-modal equipment as a long unit train behind 2-3 modern diesels. I also want to run a commuter train and some mixed oil, auto rack, lumber, etc cars. I want at least one long passing siding and a shorter staging track for the commuter train. I would like to be able to easily change up the track plan without much bother or mess (this will be in a finished living area).

I was originally planning to use true track just so it would be modular, but it appears that it is not possible to set up a parallel siding (2" centers) with true track switches even though it is possible with atlas snap switches. Unitrack seems to offer this ability and comes in larger radii, but is more expensive, and I have yet to see it in a hobby shop. I could use flex track, but then I loose the modular aspect and am stuck with it, but it is much cheaper. What would you guys do? Is there a way to temporarily fasten flextrack that is reliable? Also, I want it to look nice without all the ballasting.

Second if I use flex track, should I buy atlas or is there something else that costs the same or better that isn't so springy?
 
I've just replied to your switch machine thread & now I've found this one.. In all honesty I think your on a hiding to nothing but headaches trying to do what you want to do..

If your planning on building on a 4-5" wide shelf, why do you want it to be modular?? Over time with doors being shut, it will move and your trains will have a mighty long fall.. I would go with permanent track-work using cheap flextrack such as Atlas, Peco etc.. Also given that you want the shelf to be 4-5" you can forget switch machines! Which also means forgetting the staging..

Now on the positive side, what you can do is run this on DC with a 'station stop' unit and simply have the two switches for the passing loop lightly sprung so that the rolling stock runs through them and they close behind to be set for the opposing train..

On another positive note - given that you have such a large room, you could run two passing loops (on opposite sides of the room) with two 'station stop' units and run three trains!

That's how I would do it anyway if I had the space...
 
I'd vote for Kato Unitrack because:

1) "I want to run modern inter-modal equipment as a long unit train behind 2-3 modern diesels. I also want to run a commuter train and some mixed oil, auto rack, lumber, etc cars."

I recommend a minimum radius of 26" to 28" (assuming HO) as the bare minimum for Walthers passenger cars, for example, is 24" and, in my experience, there isn't much wiggle room. For the longer (Maxi IV and other 3 and 5 unit well cars capable of holding 53' containers) intermodal cars, autoracks (a staple on many intermodals) and TOFC flats (89' flat cars or even long-runners), they will require you to run a larger radius. If this layout is going around the ceiling, then I'd go as close to 30" as a standard.

2) "Unitrack seems to offer this ability and comes in larger radii, but is more expensive, and I have yet to see it in a hobby shop."

Most places can order it for you. If you order enough, they may be able to give you a little bit of a deal.

3) "Also, I want it to look nice without all the ballasting."

Of all the pre-ballasted style track, the Kato Unitrack is best, in my opinion.

Now, you could use the Atlas flex track and build modules (using say 4' long, 6" wide plywood strips...buy a sheet of plywood and have it ripped into strips for the straights, and custom cut for the corners), and have 'bridge pieces' (meaning, sectional track where two modules come together), but I'd recommend that the flex track be properly attached to the plywood or roadbed because you'll want smooth and trouble free operation. And, if you're just going around the room with a couple of passing sidings and such, the benefits of modular construction may not fully be realized.
 
OK so 28" would still look a bit silly with the long inter-modal stuff then? Unitrack has a 30" rad offering but it requires a lot more pieces than the other radii, therfore more $$. In that case, I think I am going to be stuck with flex track with a 32-36" rad, which is what I figured would happen anyway. Is there much noise difference between mounting the train directly on the shelf or using cork roadbed? Is there something better out there to use nowadays?

As for my modular comment, I guess what I was trying to say was that, I haven't quite settled on my design/length of trains yet so I wanted to be able to add a siding, or change things around a bit without destroying everything I already had.

I am still getting this all planned out, but I hope to be building the shelves by the middle of next month.

Thanks for the advise.
 
I believe you will find that mounting flex track directly to plywood will be considerably more noisy than on cork roadbed. I would lay out my proposed track plan on heavy cardboard or pieces of corregated box material. Use push pins to hold this to the plywood, and adjust everything. Mark the edges of the cardboard on the plywood base. You can then glue your cork roadbed to the base, using push pins to hold the cork in place until the glue dries. If you are uncertain exactly how the layout will work, you can staple the cork to the plywood using an heavy-duty stapler and 3/8" long chisel point staples. Once you are sure of where you want the track to go, then glue the cork down, and lay the track on top of it. In yard areas or where you have a lot of track and turnouts, buy sheet cork rather than the regular roadbed cork. That way you can change the track work quite easily.
 
You can craft your own roadbed to match any plastic based stuff by either laying cork roadbed manufactured for that purpose and either shimming it or sanding it. Or, you can locate at craft stores sheets of cork and cut what you need of the correct thickness to ensure joiners align without resorting to bending.

I have to be honest and say I will not likely ever resort to any plastic-ballasted track in the future unless I am well off in later years and can't do the work bent over to properly lay flex track. It is very costly, for one, and it limits what you can do in the way of configuration...there isn't enough variability. Flex is cheaper, gives you more autonomy, and it gives you easements on your curves. Not only that, it gives you vertical curves easing the train into and out of grades. Way more work, but far better track plans and rolling operations. The turnouts, alone, will be much cheaper if you learn to make your own or if you go with Atlas, say, or Peco. Pecos Code 83 Streamline are exceptionally good.
 
Unitrack can be bought in 31-1/8" radius turns that are 22.5 degrees of turn each - or eight sections = 360 degrees. Only the 34-1/8" radius section that come in 10 degrees of turn. The Unitrack #6 turn outs have the 34-1/8" radius sections and create nice parallel track not too far apart - about 60 mm which is about 2-3/8".

To run parallel track through the turns, drop down to 28-3/4" radius sections.

Remember, Kato's Unitrack primary dimensions are metric.

My LHS's carry "N" scale unitrack as "N" seems to be the big seller right now. So, I order all the HO scale Unitrack I need from Walthers.
 
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Ok so I think I've decided on what to do. I am going to build my shelf with a 4.5-5" ledge. I will be using code 100 flex track as it appears to be more reliable for older and newer equipment. I will be push-pinning the flextrack to the painted MDF shelf and adding turnouts/sidings as I go along. This way I will be able to at least start the project and finish the basement with this as my plan. When I finally get the track laid out just how I want it, I will install the cork roadbed and glue everything down. Sound like a plan?

I am also planning to add an indirect lighting feature to the shelf with rope light. The channel I hide the rope inside is also where I plan to run all of the wiring for the track. Should be a fun project and a good way to add some train display/action to the room without losing the use of the room. For switching action, I have a place laid out in my food storage closet that may become home to a more traditional style layout in the future. In the mean time, the shelf system should keep me busy.
 
What I was speaking of in radius and longer intermodal was mainly in reference to reliability. The minimum recommended radii that the manufacturers list for their cars is the smallest that they could get the car on without it derailing a lot. Of course, minimum radii are under good track conditions (no twisting, warping, kinking, and on flat track at lower speeds, with the car being pulled).

Aside from aesthetics, larger radii benefit you by:

1) better running
2) cars that (if there is an interior passing siding) don't bump into each other in curves from the overhang
3) better running, especially if the cars are pushed instead of pulled
4) easier coupling (meaning, if you have to couple two cars up on a curve, the couplers will reach each other as they are usually centered when uncoupled...Model Railroad Hobbyist e-zine had a very good article on choosing radii).

4" to 5.5" inches, in my opinion, is narrow. If you do such, I recommend some type of guardrail, especially in the curves, so that if you have a derailment which has cars and locos end up on their sides, they won't fall off the layout onto the floor. Even a 4' or so fall onto carpeting could be catastrophic.
 
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