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HopefulEnthusiast

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Greetings All, I am seeking guidance for a new project. Limitations: I live in an apartment (ground floor), limited access to tools (willing to acquire), limited craftsman skills (willing to learn), on a budget. Pluses: I have roughly a 12 x 11 room to dedicate fully to the layout, I am motivated and ready to begin, I have track and trains from yester year. I will be using HO scale and DC. I have three diesels and a couple of steam engines so the era could be in the 50s. I would like to have some industry, a rail yard, and some mountain landscape. I might be biting off more than I can chew, but am hoping that the modular design will help me get started. I have no real concept of time/money to complete, track layout design yet, or best way to proceed so any and all feedback is welcome. Thank you!
 
Welcome!

A few things to address before you start with the details:

It looks like you've definitely maximized the available space, but I'm not a big fan of 24 inch aisles. I would only have one 2 x 4 module jutting into the middle instead of 2. A 4x4 space it a bit awkward to use anyway, unless its a big locomotive turntable and roundhouse. One 2 x4 peninsula could be used as an industrial spur, mine, etc., and you could leave it for the last module to be built, so you have plenty of room to move around during construction. You also need to address the SW corner; not enough space to walk through.

I would plan to make some of the modules at a lower height than most others, just to allow for below grade scenery, like grade fills, or streams, etc. All modules being the same elevation makes this more difficult.

You mentioned DC. You have your reasons for choosing this system and they probably suit you. I run one train at a time, run DC, and it works great. I have no desire to run more trains. In this situation, a DC system and its locomotives tend to be less expensive and simpler right out of the box, so you can spend your time and money on other aspects of the layout. However, if you plan to run more than one train on the same track at the same time, you'll probably want to go DCC right off.
 
I like your drawing, infact, it's just about how I would've drawn that room. ( See my thread ) I have/had concerns about the 2 foot walkway too. I went to a local HO club today and spent a couple of hours in their layout. Their walkways were about 30" and that was for 10 walk around operators at once. They were "generally" of the opinion that 24" was enough for a single operator home layout.

That said, as someone tactfully said in my thread, it may depend on operator waistline.

In my case, I'm gonna build modules 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 and see how I get on with the 2 foot aisle before I move on.
 
About the two peninsula modules; 2 would allow a broad curve to return to the rest of the layout. However 1 would allow more aisle area and could be used as a yard or spur.
 
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Thank you for the responses!!!

Doughless,
I originally chose DC so I could use my father’s and grandfather’s locomotives as this is important to me. After a little more research, though, I found out that conversion may be possible and DCC would be preferable. I think I will go with DCC and hope for the best when it comes time to convert the locos.

I addressed the entry problem by cutting off the corner on the first module. I’ve included two theming ideas one with the peninsula recommendation you made. I’m not a big guy so I’m not sure the narrow aisles will be a problem although the 4x4 access might be. I like the idea on changing the elevations and will design different grades for the east and south portions.

Joe Circus,
Thank you. Your thread was one of the ones I looked at before completing this module layout and I will be following it closely!

Lastly, should I be considering a duck under in order complete the circuit. Will I regret this later if I don’t?
 
I had the duck under concern too. I really want to have continous running, so mine is designed for it. While I was at the club on Sunday I went through their duck under several times, no real issue even though I carry some extra weight and have knee trouble.

As a tip, they had a handrail attached to the suppport posts ( on one side ) to aid the transition through the duck under, mine will have one on each side.
 
The technology has really improved since our grandfathers were doing this stuff. You may want to see if you can use the shells but you will really know when the older stuff drives you up a wall. Modern pickups are better, the motors are better and DCC is really sweet.

24 inch aisles are fine if you want to work alone and are nice and trim with your back to a smooth wall. If you plan operating sessions, there is no room to pass someone. Even 30 inch is hard to pass someone.
 
Any helper at this point is probably going to envision a big circle of track. I suggest you research various plans, of what ever size, and find some elements or scenes that you like, and string them together around the room.

You'll get more input from more people if you draw a plan and post it.
 
HopefulEnthusiast said:
Greetings All, I am seeking guidance for a new project. ... I would like to have some industry, a rail yard, and some mountain landscape.
Click to expand...
Why do you want a rail yard? Is this just a place to park rolling stock while not being used or do you really want to make and break up trains?
 
Two observations:

1) There is no law that says that all sections have to be rectangular - i.e. that they have to have the same depth (2'). You can make your layout from 12-30" deep, varying by what you are modeling at that point. Something which also will affect aisle width at that point.

2) It sometimes is better to decide what to model first, and then decide on where to put the major elements, and how to model each scene.

One of the ways a track plan can be designed is doing a top-down design in three phases:

a) The conceptual design phase:
What is your overall vision?
Where will trains be coming from and going to?
Out and back traffic, or through traffic?
What will the yard be there for?
Steam or diesel?
Passenger or freight?
Southwestern desert or New Hampshire forests?
1900s, 1950s, 1970s or these days?
Stuff like that - what is the overall idea for the layout?
Lots of people skip this, which is the most important phase - deciding what the goal is.

b) The structural design phase
- Thinking about the placement of major elements (yards, towns, staging etc) and how to connect them
- Thinking about aisles and reach, duckunder or swing gates or turn back curves
- Thinking about train lengths and lengths of passing sidings and staging

This phase follows the phase of deciding what to model. Of course, what to model may be affected by where you can place it - if you can't find enough room, you may have to go back and modify what to model.

c) The detailed design phase
Deciding how to place tracks and buildings within each scene, thinking about where turnouts are located etc

These things slide over into each other to some extent. But the three major questions, in that order, is:
- What ?
- Where ?
- How ?

Going straight to "where" or "how" without first having spent some time thinking about "what" will not necessarily produce a good overall design.

So - what are you modeling?

Smile,
Stein
 
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Couple options.
if the peninsula comes in from the side it will be longer.
Both drawings show 28" radius minimum.
Steve
layout13-1.jpg
 
I fully understand your desire to run your father and grandfather's locomotives. I have been in the hobby off-and-on for over 50 years, and still have several small steam locos that I put together from kits when I was a kid. With over 50 locomotives, steam and diesel, there is no way that I can convert them to DCC. Not enough time nor money. OTOH, I wanted sound in some of my newer diesels, which works better with DCC. What I have done is to wire my latest layout (14 x 14 dedicated room) in blocks for DC. Model Rectifier Corp has a basic dual mode power system, the Tech 6. The Tech 6 6.0 amp will handle about anything, including older open-frame DC motors, but I can switch to DCC for locos so equipped. (To avoid inadvertantly burning up any DC motors by forgetting to switch to DC mode, I installed a DPDT toggle which has one side connected to a separate DC power pack. Not necessary, unless you are like me and have difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time. Eventually, I will probably convert some of my favorite larger steam locomotives by installing both the DCC decoder and a sound decoder in the tender. The little puffers just don't have the room.

Also, I would cut the end MINING module off at a 45 degree angle to keep from banging yourself as you come in the door. As far as a duckunder is concerned, it depends on how high off the floor the base height of the layout is. You might consider a lift-out, or a hinged lift at the door. There are several designs that I've seen in magazines. You could probably google the subject in both Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman.
 
Thank you for all the comments.

joe circus, thanks again. I hope you are a making good progress on your layout!

Pete V, good to know I can use the shells. thank you

Doughless, very helpful insight. And thank you for welcoming me to the site!

Iron Horseman, good question. I like the idea of making and breaking up trains. Plus I just think it would be really fun to model a yard. However, I need to do some more research.

choops, thank you for taking the time to sketch this. Awesome! It is helpful to see what I am working with at this early stage in the process.

trailrider, thank you. A lot of good stuff here to consider here, some I will need to research more. I like the hinged idea if I go with concept 1. I am interested in seeing your 14x14 plan, is it posted somewhere?

Steinjr, This is extremely helpful to me, thank you! It is true, I don’t know what I want to model. I only know that I want to model. And I want to enjoy every phase of the process, taking my time. There is no real rush or urgency as long as I am always making progress, otherwise I fear I will lose interest.

I have ordered a copy of Armstrong’s “Track Planning for Realistic Operation." In the meantime, I will be spending some time at the library and book stores reading up on rail history and hope to visit the local model railroad clubs this weekend (twin cities). And of course here on the forum!

I plan on doing my conceptual plan in Google sketch-up, because I am familiar with it, and the track plan in CADrail (demo version for now) because I have an AutoCAD background. I will be looking forward to the time when I have more to share. The feedback on this site is Awesome!!!

Thank you,
Andy
Hopeful Enthusiast
 
HopefulEnthusiast said:
It is true, I don’t know what I want to model. I only know that I want to model.
Click to expand...

If you don't know what you want to model, it would be smart to start small and make a test layout, instead of trying to fill up an entire room.

E.g make a layout consisting of shelf along one wall, consisting of a six foot yard and a six feet of mountain scenery (which doubles as a switching lead for the yard.

Or, if you already know you want continuous loop around the room and you absolutely want to build bench work before deciding what you want your layout to do - do tables or shelves around the perimeter of the room, but make them 18" deep instead of 24" deep, and don't build any peninsulas.

Yet. You can always add to the layout later - making it wider in parts, narrower in parts, and adding peninsulas. But for starters - leave yourself lots of floor space, and don't try to fill up the room with layout.

A good layout will cost a lot of time and a lot of money. Don't start out by cramming in as much bench work as you can if you don't know what your goal is.

Here are some layouts designed for a space smaller than what you have:

A Red Wing inspired layout in 8x10 http://www.layoutvision.com/id57.html

A MR Virginian layout in 8x10 : http://www.layoutvision.com/id56.html

Note that neither of these plans are sticking rigidly to a fixed bench work depth.

Fixed depth bench work is good for modular layouts (which needs to be able to match up with modules made by other people, working to the same spec). For a home layout, there is no particular advantage to making each section rectangular and the same size.

Smile,
Stein
 
steinjr said:
If you don't know what you want to model, it would be smart to start small and make a test layout, instead of trying to fill up an entire room.

E.g make a layout consisting of shelf along one wall, consisting of a six foot yard and a six feet of mountain scenery (which doubles as a switching lead for the yard.
Click to expand...

Thank you. This is what I needed to hear. I will post again with more specific questions.
 
HopefulEnthusiast said:
Thank you. This is what I needed to hear. I will post again with more specific questions.
Click to expand...

No prob. Btw - be aware of the fact (as you probably already are) that even though the rest of us can make suggestions, you are the one who has to make the final decisions on what you want to do.

Here is a quick sketch to try to give you an idea about what might fit in a small test layout - I have used Peco code 70 track and turnouts for this:

hopefull01.jpg


Not at all a given that this includes some of the things you might want - it is fairly generic.

Smile,
Stein
 
okay, progress is slow going ... but it is progress. After trying several demos, i've settled on XtrkCAD for the planning. Attached is a rough approximation of the layout presented above by Stein Jr. I know mine needs some work so just looking for some feedback about best ways to improve it. thank you.
 
HopefulEnthusiast said:
okay, progress is slow going ... but it is progress. After trying several demos, i've settled on XtrkCAD for the planning. Attached is a rough approximation of the layout presented above by Stein Jr. I know mine needs some work so just looking for some feedback about best ways to improve it. thank you.
Click to expand...

The most obvious difference is the lowermost track. Try to image running trains on the track plan.

To get anything into or out of the lowermost track, you cannot have much on the second to lowest track, since most of that track is used for access to the lowermost track, anything going into the lowermost track must fit to the right of the crossover on the lowermost track, and there is no way to sort things on the lowermost track - the last loco to come in must also be the first one out, since any other locos on that track will be trapped behind the last to arrive.

Look at my track plan again - tracks branch out from the left, and the switchback for the lowermost track is quite a bit bigger. Try to avoid the waterfall effect of "right hand turnout - straight - next right hand turnout" and so on and so forth - it eats up length very fast. Better to go e.g. RH - LH - LH or RH - RH - LH down the yard ladder, leaving as long as possible yard tracks.

Smile,
Stein, on vacation in MN
 
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Hopeful,

I agree with Stein; start small. Gets you something to run right away, which you can expand when you have a better idea of what you want to model.

I have a CAD background and found the old Abracadata's 3D Railroad Concept And Design program to not have to steep a learning curve, + it has a lot of 'blocks/objects/templates,' that you can drop into your plan.

Good luck!
 
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