Need track wiring help


scorpions_N&W

scorpions_N&W

Member
This is the layout I'm working on:

20zv42f.jpg


big circle at the bottom is where 2 isolators are, circle above is where one is
2 arrows on left are for power and ground, and arrow on left is for power only

My problem is that I'm trying to have 2 blocks for this inside area and I can only get one to work. I cannot figure out why it shorts out when I try to run both blocks at the same time on the selector switch. As soon as I turn off the right block, the left block comes to life. If I turn off the left block and turn on the right on, nothing.

Any help would be appreciated and if I didn't explain the problem well enough, let me know

Thanks in advance and love the board as I have only been trolling off and on for a week now, but the setup is very nicely laid out.
 
Wow that's quite the yard arrangement!
It would be easier to figure out if you could post a wiring diagram. Shouldn't be too hard to decipher then.
 
I will work on a diagram

I wanted a busy industrial area, more fun to play with :D
There will be a coal area on the right and a warehouse on the left
Upper top right will be backdrop of a coal powerplant.
I'm going with with the steam/diesel transition time period of N&W. So late 50's time frame
I have 2 GP-18 diesels and a J 4-8-4 passenger setup and also a 2-8-8-2 for a bit of coal delivery fun :D
 
Based off your information, it sounds like one of two possibilities.
First, you might have the power going to the common (ground) rail on the block on the right which will give you a direct short when switched on.
Second, same as the first except the power and ground on the left block are flipped.

Modeling the late 50's? I checked the rollout date of the GP-18 on ol' wikki and the date was.........Dec. 1959. That doesn't give a whole lot of options for modeling the 1950's.
I just got a book from the hobby store on Model Railroading the 1950's. If you want some information about it just pm me.

Hope this helps, good luck on the wiring.
 
thanks for the wiring info, at work now so will play more when I get home

Picking the late 50's with N&W works great as they were the last of the Class 1 companies to switch to Diesel. So I can still run the steamers and go with that GP-18.
Kind of pushing the envelope of time, but I figure between '55 and '59 will work for my purposes.
 
scorpions_N&W said:
thanks for the wiring info, at work now so will play more when I get home

Picking the late 50's with N&W works great as they were the last of the Class 1 companies to switch to Diesel. So I can still run the steamers and go with that GP-18.
Kind of pushing the envelope of time, but I figure between '55 and '59 will work for my purposes.
Click to expand...

Remember the prime directive: It's your layout, so run what you like and have fun doing it!;)
 
flyboy2610 said:
Remember the prime directive: It's your layout, so run what you like and have fun doing it!;)
Click to expand...
Kind of what I was thinking :D
I can run any of the steamers and the early diesel. N&W got their big leap into diesels when they took over/merged with Viginian, I believe.
 
You're wiring for DC as opposed to DCC? How many loco/cabs/transformers will you be running at one time? I don't see any reversing sections so the wiring should be pretty straight forward. If you are operating multiple engines at one time, it starts getting more involved. Have you considered DCC - the wiring is a lot simpler and you can run multiple locos without isolated blocks. True, startup costs are higher but in the long run you will be in current technology.
Its been too many years since I wired multiple cab DC. Others on this board will probably be able to give you direct answers after you decide the number of engines you want to run at one time. There is a lot of experience and knowledge here.
Regards,
Jon
http://www.dollhousedesigns.com/ModelRR/ModelRR.html
 
I'm running 3 cabs, outer track for passenger service, inner track for freight and yard area for industrial, so 3 engines at once.
A buddy of mine that has been running trains for a long time has helped me wire most of it. Outer and inner track work correctly. 4 blocks on the outer line, 2 on the inner, and I'm trying to run 2 blocks on the yard

If I want to run trains at my house, DC will have to suffice as money for kiddo comes first, doesn't leave much for me. So my project will be very slow. My first priority was to get a track plan that I liked running, which I have done. I still have a couple of tweaks that I discovered that I need to make. Inside track needs a caboose track to get it off the main line to make building a train from the yard area easier. Need more switches, as if 12 wasn't enough :lol:

My buddy is runny a big layout at his house and he will be working on switching over to DCC soon enough. I have one J 4-8-4 I can run over there once that happens.
 
Your description of the circles and arrows may hold a clue. If I understand, you are insulating both rails in one location but only one rail in the other?
Its been way too many years for me to remember the wiring for DC. I'm just getting back into HO. After seeing/hearing DCC the decision was quick ;o) Then I had to learn how to wire it - after getting past my DC thinking it really is a lot simpler.
If your neighbor can't help then I'm sure the members here can.
Regards
Jon
http://www.dollhousedesigns.com/ModelRR/ModelRR.html
 
If you want to be real specific about the eara you want to model, that's some of the details you have to watch for. But if that doesn't matter to you, then take flyboy's opinion and do what you want to do.
p.s. the N&W ran the 2-8-8-2 until May of '61.

Back to the wiring, you don't have to insulate both rails if and only if the throttles use their own transformer. If your cabs have their own throttle packs, then you don't have to worry about it.

Question: Do you have the blocks set up so you can control each one from any cab? if you don't and would like that option, I can draw up a wiring diagram that shows you how it's done.
 
I have a 2 cab throttle pack and a 1 cab throttle pack
the 2 cab runs the 2 mainlines and the single runs the yard
I have a total of 6 blocks on the 2 mainlines running through selector switches
All of that section runs great and 1 cab can control both mainlines if I set the selector switch all one way

Both rails were insulated to keep the 3rd cab separate from the mainlines. Are you saying that is not necessary?
 
The double insulators are neccessary if you are running multiple power packs.....for example if you had the inner loop running and the inside rail was hot, and you were running in the yard,and the outside rail was hot, then when you reached the point where you have the double insulators, BOTH rails would be hot...one from the inside pack and one from the outside. Having 2 hot rails doesn't work......if they were set so the same rail was hot, you'd be OK, but then you've lost the ability to run trains in opposite directions. My layout is wired so I have 5 power packs and any pack can run any block...so in theory if I didn't double insulate, I could have 3 different packs fighting for control of a block.......one from each end, and the pack that's supposed to be powering the block.
 
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So I got that part right, now to figure out why it shorts out.
I'm going to bypass the terminal the right hand block is on and see if it is the terminal that is messed up.
 
The first thing I noticed is you don't have a runaround track in your yard. You may want to think about trying to add one.

With the wiring make sure you have the correct polarity for your blocks. It sounds like you might have your common and hot rails switched between the two blocks.
 
bkpigs said:
The first thing I noticed is you don't have a runaround track in your yard. You may want to think about trying to add one.

With the wiring make sure you have the correct polarity for your blocks. It sounds like you might have your common and hot rails switched between the two blocks.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of adding a switch just before the rerailer on the inside track so I can get the caboose out of the way. I noticed that problem when I was trying to build a mixed train with box cars and coal cars.

wiring:
The only thing on the wiring that I can think of is that the terminals are messed because they are wired the same as the rest of the track. So I was going to try bypassing to see if that was the case.
 
It sounds like you need to do a simple wire swap on your terminal tracks....I believe what is happening is the right track power is on the wrong terminal.....so when you turn the right side on, it feeds power down the "common" rail making both rails hot and the 2 equal voltages cancel out......because you have the wires reversed, the "wrong" rail is hot on the right (in your case, the "common" rail, and you have no ground so nothing moves when only that side is on. Try swapping the right hand power lead to the other screw terminal on the track.
 
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My buddy came over and got it figured out. He ended up putting a double insulator in the middle and running power and common directly to the right hand side of the yard. It does run through the selector switch, so I can turn both off if I need to. WOOHOO!!

Side note we finished wiring all of the switches and I'm in the process of running the track for the caboose line, so one more switch to add :lol:
 
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