Need help. Metal truck and wheels shorting out.

[Warpiper]

Hi All,

I need some help/advice. I bought 3 used Athearn box cars that came with sprung metal trucks and wheel sets with plastic wheels and metal axles. I replaced the wheels with Intermountain metal wheels and they short out the track. I've put the original wheel sets back on and no short. The plastic wheels aren't in the greatest shape and I would like to replace them with metal ones but not if they short out the track. The wheels are insulated from the axle and I doubled checked with a multi meter but when they are placed in the truck, they still short out. Is there something I'm missing or need to know/do? These are my first metal trucks and thought they would be great but they tend to allow the wheel sets to drop out. I'm hoping that's not normal. Thanks.

Chris

 

[Greg@mnrr]

Are the wheels insulated only on one wheel per axle? If so you could of installed the new wheel sets with one insulated wheel on each side of the metal truck which could cause a short with the metal trucks.

Greg

 

[CN2117]

Yes, check each axle, one wheel must be insulated from the axle, so make sure they’re all oriented the same way.


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[beiland]

Hi All,
These are my first metal trucks and thought they would be great but they tend to allow the wheel sets to drop out. I'm hoping that's not normal. Thanks.

Chris

Sounds like a very sloppy fit with your new wheel sets and the old trucks.
Probaby best to get rid of old 'sprung trucks'. Difficult to get them operating properly.

 

[Iron Horseman]

The wheels are insulated from the axle and I doubled checked with a multi meter but when they are placed in the truck, they still short out.

As the prior posters noted, the axle is only insulated on one side. That same one side has to be on the same side of the truck. Likewise if it is an old Athearn box car with a metal frame, the insulated side of the wheel set has to be on the same side of the car on both trucks.

Also (as another prior posted stated) sounds like the springs in those trucks are mighty weak. Sprung trucks and real springs sound really cool, but they add a lot of variables to smooth operation of the cars.

 

[montanan]

I have a number of Kadee sprung truck which are metal. No shorting problems with them, but I believe that the Kadee wheels have plastic axles which won't allow any shorts. Check which wheel is insulated on the axle and make sure all of the wheels in the truck have the insulated wheels on the same sise.

 

[Warpiper]

Hi Every one,

Thanks for the help and information. I just checked and it looks like one wheel is insulated and the other is not. When I get a chance tomorrow to put the metal wheels in, I'll make sure the insulated wheels are all on one side and see what happens.

Yeah, not impressed with the spung trucks. I did get a set of Kadee 518 Barber S-2 Rolled Bearing Metal Trucks to replace a truck I broke trying to get the wheels of. It has metal trucks and metal wheels with what looks like a plastic axle. When I was looking at trucks I had no idea what I was looking at or getting. Too many choices, not enough knowledge LOL!! Is there a particular brand or type people like to use?

 

[Warpiper]

Yea! It worked. I put the metal wheels back on tonight and had all of the wheels that were isolated all on one side. The only place it sparks is when it crosses the diamond crossing in just one area. Other than that there is no shorting. Definitely not happy with the trucks and I think I may have already lost one of the springs. What brand and type of trucks do you all recommend?

Chris

 

[Iron Horseman]

Yea! It worked. I put the metal wheels back on tonight and had all of the wheels that were isolated all on one side. The only place it sparks is when it crosses the diamond crossing in just one area. Other than that there is no shorting. Definitely not happy with the trucks and I think I may have already lost one of the springs. What brand and type of trucks do you all recommend?

And there was great rejoicing!

Unfortunately both my "go to" brands are no longer made. Personally I do not like the Kadee. I'm all in for their couplers but not their wheels.

For every day use (not necessarily for show pieces) it is hard to beat the straight Athearn, Athearn Genesis, and Walther's trucks.
http://www.advantagehobby.com/221902/ATH90390/HO-70-Ton-Roller-Bearing-Truck33-Metal-Wheels2

https://www.walthers.com/rigid-trucks-w-33-quot-metal-wheels-axles-70-ton-asf-roller-bearing-1-pair

What sort of cars are you converting? It would be good to match the "era" of the wheels with the "era" of the cars.

 

[montanan]

If you really want sprung trucks, I would recommend Kadee trucks. Many many moons ago when I was starting my layout, I did have a dealership with a number of distributors, including Walthers and was custom painting undecorated blue box cars for my freelance railroad and with my discount, I could afford the Kadee trucks. I believe that all of them are still in use after over 25 years of use with no problems. On cabooses, I removed the coil springs and replaced them with leaf springs.



The trucks that come with freight equipment today for the most part are very good.

 

[Greg@mnrr]

I really like the looks of sprung trucks on models, especially when in close up photographs. It really adds to the realism of the models and Chet has shown this realism in his photos of his Logan Valley and Gallatin Canyon & Western rolling stock that he posted.

The detail of the KD rolling stock and the struck trucks is what attracted me to purchasing a collection of these cars.

Greg

 

[montanan]

I have a couple of Kadee box cars that I picked up years ago and they do have sprung trucks. Recently, I got good buys on them on Amazon. They came with the smaller closer to scale couplers, but the trucks were not sprung. Sort of suprised me.

 

[Warpiper]

And there was great rejoicing!

Unfortunately both my "go to" brands are no longer made. Personally I do not like the Kadee. I'm all in for their couplers but not their wheels.

For every day use (not necessarily for show pieces) it is hard to beat the straight Athearn, Athearn Genesis, and Walther's trucks.
http://www.advantagehobby.com/221902/ATH90390/HO-70-Ton-Roller-Bearing-Truck33-Metal-Wheels2

https://www.walthers.com/rigid-trucks-w-33-quot-metal-wheels-axles-70-ton-asf-roller-bearing-1-pair

What sort of cars are you converting? It would be good to match the "era" of the wheels with the "era" of the cars.

Hi Iron Horseman,

Thanks, and thanks for the links, I appreciate it. These will be for every day use at home. It would be great to match the era but I would have no idea for what to look for. The era I'm going for the late 60's to the early 80's for the Boston & Maine. I lived in Gloucester, MA during that time as a kid and have some 40' box cars in the B&M blue and white color scheme as well as some open hoppers.






Eventually, I want to be make a few of this but it will be a while.

 

[Warpiper]

If you really want sprung trucks, I would recommend Kadee trucks. Many many moons ago when I was starting my layout, I did have a dealership with a number of distributors, including Walthers and was custom painting undecorated blue box cars for my freelance railroad and with my discount, I could afford the Kadee trucks. I believe that all of them are still in use after over 25 years of use with no problems. On cabooses, I removed the coil springs and replaced them with leaf springs.

View attachment 65489 View attachment 65490 View attachment 65491

The trucks that come with freight equipment today for the most part are very good.

Hi Chet,

Thanks. I think I'll stay away from spring trucks for now. I'm not sure how to set them up or what to look for. I love your cars and the weathering on them. I hope to do mine some day.

 

[Warpiper]

I really like the looks of sprung trucks on models, especially in close up photographs. It really adds to the realism of the models and Chet has shown this realism in his photos of his Logan Valley and Gallatin Canyon & Western rolling stock that he posted.

The detail of the KD rolling stock and the struck trucks is what attracted me to purchasing a collection of these cars.

Greg

I have a couple of Kadee box cars that I picked up years ago and they do have sprung trucks. Recently, I got good buys on them on Amazon. They came with the smaller closer to scale couplers, but the trucks were not sprung. Sort of suprised me.

Those are beautiful cars. I'm just now figuring out why some cars are so much more expensive than others and it turns out to be the better/more detail, the more expensive.

 

[Iron Horseman]

It would be great to match the era but I would have no idea for what to look for. The era I'm going for the late 60's to the early 80's for the Boston & Maine.

For 40' box cars with roof walks the Bettendorf 50 ton truck would be ideal. They were used from 1933 up through the early 1990s. The 4 bay hopper car would be 70 ton truck. Bettendorf would also work for it, but don't rule out Barber, and more modern ASF, and National trucks. Off the top of my head I cannot tell you about the other two. I'm guessing roller bearing 70 ton trucks.

Truthfully, most people would not know the difference as long as you don't slap an arch bar or fox truck on them.
If you are interested here is a write up I found on trucks.
http://www.pcrnmra.org/pcr/clinics/FreightCarTrucksRdr7up.pdf

Oh yeah, you do not want rib backed wheels as those are pre-1960.

 

[montanan]

Warpiper - The majority of my rolling stock is quite old and started off as undecorated Athearn blue box cars. I custom painted many for my freelance railroad and experimented with dry transfers on others. Modeling the transition era, 1957 to be exact and weathering was interesting. I used some black chalk to try to give the impression of soot streaking down the side of the cars. Using an air brush, a light shot of "mud" along the bottom of the car looks like dust picked up along the line. I don't get carried away with weathering, but do like to have some weathering on the cars before they go on the layout.

I do know what you mean about the price of some of the more highly detailed cars available today. I do have a few Kadee cars which I managed to pick up at a decent price, but when you put these highly detailed cars in a train with the less detailed cars you really have to look hard to tell the difference. Here's a video I have posted in the past. I was screwing around and just kept adding cars to the train. This video was taken at the top of a two and a half percent grade so I had to start adding locomotives to get the train up the grade. More cars were added after this video was taken and another locomotive added at the end but the battery on the cam corder crapped out half way through.

[video=youtube;3p6VEsjM1tc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p6VEsjM1tc&index=12&list=UUpe539gp80GddF8 4WMrSNzw[/video]

You will notice a couple of shiny box cars, which are Kadee cars that I hadn't had the time to weather yet, but you will see that you may not really need to spend a lot of money for highly detailed cars. The under cars detail is excellent, but I try to keep mine on the rails so you really can't appreciate all of the under side of the car.

I am going to try to find a B&M box car. I have a lot of cars for the western railroads, but there is a lack of eastern railroads in my collection.

 

[Warpiper]

For 40' box cars with roof walks the Bettendorf 50 ton truck would be ideal. They were used from 1933 up through the early 1990s. The 4 bay hopper car would be 70 ton truck. Bettendorf would also work for it, but don't rule out Barber, and more modern ASF, and National trucks. Off the top of my head I cannot tell you about the other two. I'm guessing roller bearing 70 ton trucks.

Truthfully, most people would not know the difference as long as you don't slap an arch bar or fox truck on them.
If you are interested here is a write up I found on trucks.
http://www.pcrnmra.org/pcr/clinics/FreightCarTrucksRdr7up.pdf

Oh yeah, you do not want rib backed wheels as those are pre-1960.

Hi Iron Horseman,

Thanks for the information and for the link. I just pulled it up and will read it later tonight. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you but I've been out for a couple of days. LOL!! I was wondering about the rib backed wheels. They look interesting but I've never seen them in real life.

 

[Warpiper]

Warpiper - The majority of my rolling stock is quite old and started off as undecorated Athearn blue box cars. I custom painted many for my freelance railroad and experimented with dry transfers on others. Modeling the transition era, 1957 to be exact and weathering was interesting. I used some black chalk to try to give the impression of soot streaking down the side of the cars. Using an air brush, a light shot of "mud" along the bottom of the car looks like dust picked up along the line. I don't get carried away with weathering, but do like to have some weathering on the cars before they go on the layout.

I do know what you mean about the price of some of the more highly detailed cars available today. I do have a few Kadee cars which I managed to pick up at a decent price, but when you put these highly detailed cars in a train with the less detailed cars you really have to look hard to tell the difference. Here's a video I have posted in the past. I was screwing around and just kept adding cars to the train. This video was taken at the top of a two and a half percent grade so I had to start adding locomotives to get the train up the grade. More cars were added after this video was taken and another locomotive added at the end but the battery on the cam corder crapped out half way through.

[video=youtube;3p6VEsjM1tc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p6VEsjM1tc&index=12&list=UUpe539gp80GddF8 4WMrSNzw[/video]

You will notice a couple of shiny box cars, which are Kadee cars that I hadn't had the time to weather yet, but you will see that you may not really need to spend a lot of money for highly detailed cars. The under cars detail is excellent, but I try to keep mine on the rails so you really can't appreciate all of the under side of the car.

I am going to try to find a B&M box car. I have a lot of cars for the western railroads, but there is a lack of eastern railroads in my collection.

Hi Chet,

Thanks, that's an amazing video. I had to watch it several times and count all the cars. I look forward to the day when I'll have enough room and track to put that many cars on my RR. I love the weathering on the cars and the background too. Very nice. Once all the cars are upgraded with metal wheels and Kadee couplers, weathering will be next. Oh, and do more work on the scenery.

 

[montanan]

Glad you enjoyed the video. I did manage to find a B&M box car from Kadee. Terry in the Coffee House turned me onto it. At $29 for a Kadee car, not a bad price at all.