MTH New release for 2014


Selector said:
China only does what they consistently get rewarded/compensated for supplying their clients, Michael. If you specify a weak can motor, why should the supplyer be 'nice guys' and put a more expensive or more powerful model...just 'cause? So, I don't blame the Chinese. I blame the importer, whether it was BLI in their hellish years just gone by or now MTH. MTH is passing off to its loyal customers, who often pay a premium for the goods just for MTH's name, crud that BLI was scourged for between 2009 and 2011.
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Crandell, the reason these companies have downgraded on quality. Is because the Chinese want higher wages. So now these companies like MTH have to cut costs. On things like cheap paint jobs, and no manuals, etc.

When will the MRR companies wake up and quit producing in China. Bring manufacturing back the USA. I don't care what I have to pay, if its a quality product I'm willing to pay for it.
 
Selector said:
China only does what they consistently get rewarded/compensated for supplying their clients, Michael. If you specify a weak can motor, why should the supplyer be 'nice guys' and put a more expensive or more powerful model...just 'cause? So, I don't blame the Chinese. I blame the importer, whether it was BLI in their hellish years just gone by or now MTH. MTH is passing off to its loyal customers, who often pay a premium for the goods just for MTH's name, crud that BLI was scourged for between 2009 and 2011.
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My guess for an explanation of a drop in quality of Chinese imports would be this decrease in quality is due to a change in factory in China. I know from other sources that a change in place of production hit most companies using China to manufacture their models in the last few years. The transition has been pretty bumpy and has left some importers in serious trouble.

So it isn't entirely the importers' who are to blame. Well, I suppose they should have had the foresight to recognise sourcing their product from overseas, without proper legal cover in a country controlled by a centeralised, often corrupt state, would eventually lead to trouble. Umm, possibly we might consider some sort of risk managment plan would be appropriate under such circumstances. Oh well.....
 
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It might be different with car dealerships if the product they sell is crap, gentlemen. They must sell what the franchiser/supplier says they may sell. If a model is a flop, the local sellers bear the brunt of the ridicule, but at least they can do warranty work or take a car back in very odd and rare instances. With our model train importers, THEY set the terms. Period. When they accept a shipment, and in MTH's case charge about $50-$150 more for the same item that BLI sells for a price, wouldn't you think the nice greedy workers and factory owners in China should cough up the goods? Would YOU send to your etailers and LHS's crud you knew was crud, but...oh well...some lame brain will take them off our hands? Well, if you wouldn't why does MTH sell it? THEY specifiied the requirement, THEY are responsible for the contract once it is let, THEY are responsible for ensuring compliance and QA during production, and THEY are responsible for receipt of a shipment of decent, if expensive, products. After that, it is YOU on whom falls the responsibility for getting the value you were promised. What good does the factory's work do you to complain about when the payment has already gone on to them? When you place your order, it is MTH who accepts the obligation to provide you value...most often at inflated prices, too. If BLI sells me crap, I go after BLI, not their darned factory!

As the guy on radio used to say many years ago, "That's the way I see it, anyway."
 
Selector said:
After that, it is YOU on whom falls the responsibility for getting the value you were promised.
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You are completely correct about that. This is why I own not a single MTH model.


Here's some links with background on the problems in China for the model railroad industry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kader

http://www.trainmaster.ch/Y-807.htm

http://www.modelretailer.com/en/The Industry/Industry News/2010/06/Sanda Kan.aspx


Going of on a tangent, Marklin/Trix was on the cusotmer list for Sanda Kan. I thought they were still German made. If they are making their models in China, why the high price? Seems the US modellers aren't the only ones being gouged.


The degree of concentration of model RR manufacturing is a big part of the problem. If all manufacutring is done in a few factries owned by the same company, then we have a monoply situation and all the issues that going with that.

For some reason Kadar kicked out most importers from their factories. I am really not sure why they did this as the result is lots of rival factories have emerged and Kadar will face competion in future. Anyway, those start-up alternative factories haven't yet built up the skills of the old factories so the products just won't be the same for many years to come.

Due to rising costs in China, the prices are going up. So your getting lower quality for higher price.
 
I experienced a similar disappointment when building my Walther's modern roundhouse. I wanted a total of six extended stalls, so over a period of one year, I bought six separate kits. The last two kits I received were packaged differently... smaller box, different graphics, etc. I figured the parts would be the same, though. Upon opening the boxes, the pieces in the newer boxes were molded in slightly different colors than the old. This was of no concern as I painted all the pieces anyway. Then came time for assembly. The newer pieces were off dimensionally in several areas causing misalignments as I assembled. I called Walthers and bitched. I was told they, too, had switched manufacturers and had no control over differences from one factory to the next. I was wrong in believing molds were molds. I was told they would replace the misfit pieces and that I would only pay cost. I was also told there was no guarantee the replacement pieces would fit. Hmmm. I truly love this hobby and accepted a long time ago that it was an expensive hobby. However, it's a hard pill to swallow when quality is inversely proportional to price. I understand that companies are in the business to make money. Go for it. Make your damn money, but don't take the consumer for granted. We are not blind. We see what the companies are doing in order to either save or boost profit margins. This goes for all MRR manufacturers. I've heard similar complaints in quality in the new Athearn releases... just not as crisp, clean, and of adequate quality to justify the costs... which increase substantially with every release. I've been told, "If you want quality, buy brass." Well, I cannot justify $2K to $3K for a single locomotive, that is old and not fitted with modern operating technology. Besides, aren't price points of $600 and up worthy of 100% quality?
 
Crap on a cracker. After reading the review(s) of the latest MTH Big Boy release I went to the LHS and bought one. I was waiting on 4013 but just needed to see for myself... UMMM SH** is all I can say. I wouldn't pay $200 for these. Like was said earlier. Terrible, terrible paint job, runs rough and the loco to tender connection is screwed up. I have been an advocate of MTH in the past, but if this is the path they are taking, no longer. Little things seem to add up to a sub-par model (yes I said model) for that price point. I am so very disappointed. All 3 engines that we tried were not nearly as smooth and refined as their previous offerings. My hand rails are not bent and the sound/loco works but wow, I just can not describe the difference in words! It is being returned Monday, and I am canceling my order for 4013. My only recourse is to not buy their product and give others a fair review before they go spend their hard earned money. :(
 
Well that does it, I'm not buying the MTH Challenger now for sure. I just hope the Athearn one is half way decent. I looked at one at my LHS and the paint and details looked great. It has a tsumami in it, so I know it will sound run good.

What is strange, is I just bought an MTH GS-6 about 6 months ago, and the paint is really nice, details are great. And most importantly, it runs smooth as butter. I'm happy with it.

Have you guys thought about getting the Athearn Big Boy?
 
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Motley said:
Well that does it, I'm not buying the MTH Challenger now for sure. I just hope the Athearn one is half way decent. I looked at one at my LHS and the paint and details looked great. It has a tsumami in it, so I know it will sound run good.

What is strange, is I just bought an MTH GS-6 about 6 months ago, and the paint is really nice, details are great. And most importantly, it runs smooth as butter. I'm happy with it.

Have you guys thought about getting the Athearn Big Boy?
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I have 2 Athearn Big boys and 2 Athearn Challengers. All HAD the MRC in them. 3 of them have Tsunami's and 1 is in the process of getting a QSI Titan just for the stereo feature. I am going to find one to put a TCS WOW in as soon as I am done with it. I will say this, they run very nice with a little tuning. The newer ones with tsunami already installed run good out of the box. But nothing I have done so far can compete with the sound that my MTH produces. I have tried every speaker configuration under the sun except 1, MTH's. I ordered speakers from MTH as well as a decoder, motor, flywheels, and sound sensor. I will be converting on of my PCM's to Prot 3.0. :D I have a feeling the difference has to do with the metal tender. I will confirm that in a few months. Getting parts from MTH has proven difficult here in the last 4 months. Although Midge (SP?) is very helpful, if they don't have the parts to send to me there is nothing she can do. I have been waiting on some driver springs, and a walkway for going on 5 months now. I am starting to suspect they want to get away from DIY'ers and steer the repairs towards the "authorized repair facilities". >Sigh< My open house train will be pulled by one of my MTH BB's. 75 cars up a long 2.5% grade with 28"R curves. It will be my 4th attempt to get one to make it the whole 2hrs times 4 days without a break down. If/when they do fail my PCM will always get the job done. Sorry for the ramble Motley, the Athearn's are nice...
 
I agree. I have an MTH GS-4 and I love it, but i guess it is from their previous release. I still trust MTH, and I think I might still get their challenger. The thing that's making me stick is ProtoSound 3.0. Whatever everyone says about Tsunami, I don't see it. I think their sound files aren't nearly as good and the speakers don't make the model sound nearly as real as ProtoSound 3.0. Also, the smoke units are fantastic on MTH models.

Best regards,
Jim
 
iroc,
railroadkid1937 az u know has been dieing for an MTH BIG BOY
well he finally got 1 & had to ship it back & had to ship back the replacment one also, havent got an update since
 
blackz28 said:
iroc,
railroadkid1937 az u know has been dieing for an MTH BIG BOY
well he finally got 1 & had to ship it back & had to ship back the replacment one also, havent got an update since
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Yeah, I really wish it wasn't that way. You never hear of the success stories... If I can convert one of my PCM's I think I will have one of the best non-brass BB's around. IF!
 
Thats crazy! MTH repair department must be going nuts right about now. They probably need to staff up in that dept.
 
I don't own any MTH locos. They have yet to make anything I want. I have seen their GS-4, and it's OK I guess, but I prefer my brass models. The detail is better. Their GS-6 (with respect to Michael) is not truly correct, as they simply plunked an altered GS-4 boiler down on a GS-4 chassis and painted everything black. There were more differences than that. The GS-6 had smaller drivers. It was basically a return to the GS-2 design except for the cab (that's how they sold the war production board on allowing them to buy Northerns, by claiming it was a dual purpose design. They really wanted more GS-4's), and I didn't like how the three generator housings were covered over. Two of them never existed on the 6. I placed a Westside brass GS-6 alongside a fellow club member's MTH GS-6 and it just didn't work for me. Of course I'm sort of a rivet counter when it comes to many things SP.

Our club prohibits the use of smoke generators, and that's not a feature I'm interested in anyway. I do like how they have done their passenger cars though. They are capable of doing it right when it suits them. I'd like them to get away from the "toy train" mentality that seems to creep into most if not all of their projects. Cab chatter, crash noises, and all that guff. Still, if you like 'em, buy 'em.
 
Shows you how much I know about SP stuff, I had no idea my GS-6 was that off. Wow thanks for making me feel bad.

I have two sets of MTH passenger cars, and they are very well done. And I have 4 SD70Aces and all of them are great too. Thats why this hole Big Boy and Challenger fiasco is very surprising coming from MTH.
 
Motley said:
Shows you how much I know about SP stuff, I had no idea my GS-6 was that off. Wow thanks for making me feel bad.

I have two sets of MTH passenger cars, and they are very well done. And I have 4 SD70Aces and all of them are great too. Thats why this hole Big Boy and Challenger fiasco is very surprising coming from MTH.
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As I mentioned somewhere, I have 2 of MTH's SD70ACe's in MRL livery and I also have 4 of the Genesis. Haven't tried to run the MTH ones as yet, but comparing the detail I'm glad the MRL livery is dark blue and black.
 
Motley said:
Shows you how much I know about SP stuff, I had no idea my GS-6 was that off. Wow thanks for making me feel bad.
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If I did that Michael I apologize. I didn't mean to knock your stuff. Like I said, if you like it, that's all that matters. My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. I just gave my reasons for doing what I did. There is absolutely nothing wrong with stand-ins. I ran them for years, and still have a few in some cases where I just don't want to spend the money on certain brass passenger cars. I replaced most of them over the years as opportunity (and cash) permitted. I got my GS-6 for painting some brass locos for a friend. You can find the Westside Brass GS-6 for around $300.00 on e-Bay. I re-motored and painted mine, which was cheaper than the MTH model (which wasn't even out yet!) It does not have sound, but I don't have sound in everything. I also didn't like that long drawbar spacing on the MTH model, but I hear they have fixed that in later releases.

I'm cursed with wanting some things to be "just so", along with wanting models that are different or can't necessarily be seen on lots of layouts. That can be fun, but also expensive! It takes a long time too. My collection of SP brass took over 20 years to assemble, and I still have to paint too many of them!
 
Espeefan said:
If I did that Michael I apologize. I didn't mean to knock your stuff. Like I said, if you like it, that's all that matters. My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. I just gave my reasons for doing what I did. There is absolutely nothing wrong with stand-ins. I ran them for years, and still have a few in some cases where I just don't want to spend the money on certain brass passenger cars. I replaced most of them over the years as opportunity (and cash) permitted. I got my GS-6 for painting some brass locos for a friend. You can find the Westside Brass GS-6 for around $300.00 on e-Bay. I re-motored and painted mine, which was cheaper than the MTH model (which wasn't even out yet!) It does not have sound, but I don't have sound in everything. I also didn't like that long drawbar spacing on the MTH model, but I hear they have fixed that in later releases.

I'm cursed with wanting some things to be "just so", along with wanting models that are different or can't necessarily be seen on lots of layouts. That can be fun, but also expensive! It takes a long time too. My collection of SP brass took over 20 years to assemble, and I still have to paint too many of them!
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No its all good Alan, I was only joking. No need for any apologies.
 
Espeefan said:
...

I'm cursed with wanting some things to be "just so", along with wanting models that are different or can't necessarily be seen on lots of layouts. That can be fun, but also expensive! It takes a long time too. My collection of SP brass took over 20 years to assemble, and I still have to paint too many of them!
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I'm the same way Alan, as you know, I've been working on my SRR collection since the early 1970's. My mother always said that I had Champagne tastes on a Beer budget!

While I have one of at least most classes and types of loco available in brass for the SRR, I don't have, nor can I afford the only one missing, a PSC Ls-2 2-8-8-2. I have class wise, As-10, F-1, Ks, Ms, Ms-1, Ms-4, Ps-4, Ss, and Ss-1. I have other brass locos, that the SRR never had, but I like them so I have them.
 
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