MR's "Realistic Reliable Track"


jackn2mpu said:
I NEVER said I did product reviews. What I said was I would never have sent a specially-prepped unit meant for a salesman for someone to review. Big difference. The whole idea for giving a specially prepped unit (in this case a unit with specs that are WAY beyond what an ordinary user would get - in this case a piece of electronic equipment designed to use ultrasonics to measure for flaws and thickness in material) .
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I understand. The dangers of e-mail:). So now that I understand what you were saying, I can still say that, AFAIK, no "cherry picking" of samples occurs. The Red Caboose stock car review I did impessed me enough that I went out and bought four more of the cars. No difference between the review samples & purchased cars. The only time this might be feasible would be with brass models, but you don't see many of those reviewed. Those buyers would catch it anyway. Talk about a selective bunch of guys!

jackn2mpu said:
I don't sugar-coat things. I tell it like it is, and expect the same from others.
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Me too! ;)
 
UP2CSX said:
Alan, I did indeed sent an e-mail to Downtown Deco letting them know one wall arrived broken and the other one broke when I was trying sand it flat enough to fit the adjoining wall. They were very nice and sent two more walls. The one wall was fairly flat but still arrived broken. The wall that was fairly flat but broken in the original kit was warped and full of bubbles. I just gave up and combined the parts to make one kit.
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Interesting. I have one of their kits here. Diamante Shipping. Bought it years ago from a LHS here that was going under. I opened it after reading your post. The castings are all cherry. Wrapped in bubble wrap and secured with rubber bands to a stiff piece of cardboard. Nothing broken YET. The castings look to be about 3/8" thick plus or minus. I may have to build it and see what happens :D Sounds like their castings are too thin.

UP2CSX said:
In thinking about it, I'd really like to see reviews, especially for structure kits, which shows exactly what the kit looks like when you first open the box. This is something you can't do at a hobby shop, since almost everything is shrink wrapped, and certainly can't do on-line. It's one thing to have a picture of how the model looks when assembled and painted by a professional but quite another to see what lies ahead of you when you see how it looks when you open the box. A good example are the Merchant's Row kits. They look great in pictures when they are assembled and painted but it's a lot different when you open the box and stare at a bunch of gray plastic and realize you need to buy about 10 new brushes and 8 more colors of paint. As long as the buyer knows what he's getting into in advance, it's caveat emptor. Just showing a picture of the finished kit is something I can see in a Walthers catalog. Anyone who has ever bought a Proto Mather stock car kit will know exactly what I'm talking about. :eek:
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Some guys do it that way. It depends on how much space the editor is allowed for reviews. He also has the final say on what makes it into print, so even if we do a photo of "open box" it might wind up on the cutting room floor:(. The Walthers buildings do take a bunch of paint to look good, but they are great value for the money. You have to paint that craftsman level stuff too!

Mather stock car kit??? Boo..Hiss...Arghhhhh. What a stinker! Have two, started one, what a piece of crap! The worst grab irons I've ever seen. :mad: Not sure why they bothered! Anybody want the other one cheap?

Hot up here in Milwaukee today! 91 degrees. That's hot for up here. Makes me think I'm back in Alabama!
 
Personally, I critique everything I buy. I may not sit down and write a review for a well-known periodical, but when the opportunity arises, I put in my experiences with a given product.

I think that some manufacturers, like Kato, Atlas, Spectrum, and others, are overrated. This means a higher price point. In the end, a more expensive layout or fewer cars. It's not that I don't care for them, but through reviews and such, the companies can mark up the product. I think it's still hard to beat an Athearn Blue Box box car. Great price point, adequate detail, good quality, and almost bulletproof.

The true meaning of value, and the ultimate review, comes from the end consumer. It does not matter if others like the product, it's whether the product meets your expectations.

Currently, I buy MRR to keep the collection going more than for the information found inside its cover. With a collection that is over 50 years old, I find it hard to give up that quest.

Bob
 
Alan, maybe you got that DD kit when they were having a good day. I'll be really interested to find out if those walls are really as square and true as they look. The castings are too thin - that's why I broke the one I was sanding.

I understand about a reviewer not controlling a publication. I'm more directing these comments at editors rather than reviewers. If the editors decided to show the opened box and finished kit as a "feature", they'd make room for it. I suspect that don't want to scare off buyers who see that a DD or Merchants Row kit is going to need a lot of work to make it look like the picture on the box. Same thing with the Mather stock cars. If I had seen them in the box before I bought them, I would have passed, since it was obvious that there was way too much fiddle work with lousy parts to make the kit worthwhile.

I have no hobby shop within 70 miles so I'm stuck ordering off the net and reading the reviews here, as posted by people like Bob, and especially Josh, who's really good about giving an honest review of almost everything he buys. I've been vey lax about that myself and this thread will give me a kick in the rear to do more reviews, seeing that I've done so much complaining about them. :)
 
Grab your ankles, Jim. I'll donate my size 10.

It seems the best reviews are now coming from sites like this one. The magazines seem to have shifted their focus to the business end of their program. Losing site of the real contributor and hanging us out to dry. Believe me when I say this, if you are true to your consumers, and in this case the hobby, too, the business end will take care of itself.

I owned a "hot rod building" shop for almost thirty years. We did our very best to stay with technology, provide unique "rides", and give the customer a unique product. We did so without advertising. No two cars, given similar models and years, were ever the same. And I'm not talking just being different colors. I feel we were successful in accomplishing our goal. If someone came in and said, "I want a car JUST like this one." they were turned away. We were not copycats. And we made money. Had a waiting list. Provided some of the nicest rides I've ever seen. But, our focus was on the hobby, the customer, and integrating new technology into a single product. Each unique, each a one-off. No two ever the same. I am proud of my guys for hanging in there with me to be able to do that. We always thought outside of the box. Two of them now own the business. They should do well.

But, there are those in the railroad modeling hobby, manufacturers, publishers, distributors, and such, that think they are bigger than the hobby. They seem to forget the basic premise. If not for the hobby, they would not be in business. It may just be my opinion, but, their credo should always be, "It's the hobby first". My reasoning being, there will always be hobbyists and manufacturers and distributors to serve the customer. But, it is the magazines that service the hobby. If the publishers would follow that staple, they have no alternative but to succeed.

MRR, and the others, need to step back, examine themselves, and evaluate. I'd bet that many would change. If not, they are doomed.

Bob
 
Espeefan said:
Interesting. I have one of their kits here. Diamante Shipping. Bought it years ago from a LHS here that was going under. I opened it after reading your post. The castings are all cherry. Wrapped in bubble wrap and secured with rubber bands to a stiff piece of cardboard. Nothing broken YET. The castings look to be about 3/8" thick plus or minus. I may have to build it and see what happens :D Sounds like their castings are too thin.



Some guys do it that way. It depends on how much space the editor is allowed for reviews. He also has the final say on what makes it into print, so even if we do a photo of "open box" it might wind up on the cutting room floor:(. The Walthers buildings do take a bunch of paint to look good, but they are great value for the money. You have to paint that craftsman level stuff too!

Mather stock car kit??? Boo..Hiss...Arghhhhh. What a stinker! Have two, started one, what a piece of crap! The worst grab irons I've ever seen. :mad: Not sure why they bothered! Anybody want the other one cheap?

Hot up here in Milwaukee today! 91 degrees. That's hot for up here. Makes me think I'm back in Alabama!
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Are you talking about the plastic grabs? I'll admit they are a bit of a pain to work with, but not unusable if you've got a LOT of patience! Back in late 2007 I started into building 8 of those cars for my layout as I was home recovering from cancer surgery. Thankfully I had all that time - it would take me something like 8 plus hours per car, split over 2 days, to finish one car. I'm talking the double-deck cars. What I ended up using for grabs were pre-formed wire ones, drilling through-holes for them and clipping off the long ends inside the car. I also used I think it was PSC brass ladders.

My biggest hassle with these was putting in the floor for the second deck - it's in 2 pieces and the locating slots for each piece have to go into specific places between the slats on the sides of the cars. And with the grabs I used I either had to be careful and trim them off close to the inside edged or try and wiggle the sides into place around the little nubbins left over.

Like the raven said: nevermore!
 
UP2CSX said:
I happen to think MR is doing an increasingly lousy job. Every month, the articles are more and more dumbed down and there's less useful information.
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I agree with this. The only article that has really interested me lately was about modeling an ATSF GP7u in the June issue. I am more interested in detailing locomotives than some of the other aspects of the hobby, so maybe I should be subscribed to something other than MR..
 
AL1 said:
I agree with this. The only article that has really interested me lately was about modeling an ATSF GP7u in the June issue. I am more interested in detailing locomotives than some of the other aspects of the hobby, so maybe I should be subscribed to something other than MR..
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Example of MR dumbing down an article was a few years back when I was still a subscriber they ran an article by Jim Six. I thought to myself: wow - here's an article by someone that really knows his stuff and is sure not to deliver the same old tired junque and style of Koester. Was I ever wrong - MR completely neutered it and the style and substance was nowheres close to what Jim used to do for Model Railroading.
 
To show the redundancy in the publishing of MRR, I went back quite a few years in my library. They seemed to have run an article on the Gorre & Dephetid 2-4 times a year. There were other articles that repeated themselves with the same frequency. How many articles does one need on the art of ballasting track, installing a decoder, switching...?

I would rather see articles on layout, the characters in the hobby, the inspiration, honest critiques of products..... Good stuff. Articles showing layouts of the fallen flags, histories, kitbashing,.....include a little known shortline or two. There are so many topics going wasted in these periodicals.

Bob
 
Things like MR are becoming a dying breed.

As pointed out, its all the same thing month after month. I will admit, coming into the hobby new, with a bunch of OLD MR, MRC, and older reference books, its nice to actually get information on the "modern" approach, but even most of that is from the forum and such.

The thing I love most about this forum is that you can see the layout as it transforms, week by week in some cases. MR is filled with great layouts sure, but those are all from guys who have been working on it for years, and have tons of money and space to invest. Personally, I want to see something more realistic to what I could accomplish, which is what makes things like this forums great.

Not to mention product reviews. Magazines are filled with "reviews" that they are paid to run. I know a guy who was a tech for a motherboard company, where they tried to pay him to tell everyone how great their new product line was, even though they were pieces of junk. If the advertisers are paying big bucks, you can't say anything bad about them.

This reminds me of watching shows on TV where they are showing car builds and stuff that "you" can do yourself, then they pump you with the top of the line brand name stuff that would really put a dent in the wallet.
 
In partial defense of repetition, there are always new people doming into the hobby, and back issues are not always available.

On the other hand, I don't like repetition any more than the rest of you do.
 
sparkyftw said:
Things like MR are becoming a dying breed.
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Um, don't think so. Their circulation is quite healthy.

sparkyftw said:
As pointed out, its all the same thing month after month. I will admit, coming into the hobby new, with a bunch of OLD MR, MRC, and older reference books, its nice to actually get information on the "modern" approach, but even most of that is from the forum and such.

The thing I love most about this forum is that you can see the layout as it transforms, week by week in some cases. MR is filled with great layouts sure, but those are all from guys who have been working on it for years, and have tons of money and space to invest. Personally, I want to see something more realistic to what I could accomplish, which is what makes things like this forums great..
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Let's not forget what MR is. It is the magazine for those starting out in the hobby. Advanced projects or more "in depth" prototype information can ge gotten from RMC, Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette, N Scale, and others. There are also modeling columns in most historical society newsletters. If you don't like MR, or if it does not fit your needs, like anything else, vote with your wallet...don't buy it.

sparkyftw said:
Not to mention product reviews. Magazines are filled with "reviews" that they are paid to run. I know a guy who was a tech for a motherboard company, where they tried to pay him to tell everyone how great their new product line was, even though they were pieces of junk. If the advertisers are paying big bucks, you can't say anything bad about them.

This reminds me of watching shows on TV where they are showing car builds and stuff that "you" can do yourself, then they pump you with the top of the line brand name stuff that would really put a dent in the wallet.
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Maybe you should read all of this thread. Most reviewers are not paid anything. The products are furnished by the manufacturers and the review done by the mag. Negative comments are not unknown, but must be done professionally. That's the difference between a magazine and a forum. Nobody is paying money to read our discussion. No editor to make sure your stuff is good quality, your pictures clear, and that you know what you're talking about. Not to say that there isn't good stuff here too, but if you knew some of the guys writing it, you might be surprised to find out that they have also reviewed products for magazines.;)
 
Alan, I don't remember MRR being so dedicated to the newb. Years ago they WERE a very rounded magazine. Lately, they have chosen to change their focus. Not just in their approach to their focus. They not only have they left the "intermediate" and advanced hobbyists behind, Kalmbach seems to be paying more attention to the manufacturers and suppliers in the hobby. Not a good thing.

As I said earlier, pay attention to the hobby and the hobbyist, and the business end will take care of itself.

If you doubt what I am saying, go back in the library 10-15 years and read some of the articles and compare them with articles today. Pale in comparison.

Bob
 
i admint i haven't read the entire thread, just the last few comments so i'm cautiously going to offer my 0.02 worth as someone who thinks he is just a little bit familiar with the entire rag business model in US (although i do admit no experience with model railroading ones).


i can't say i worked for but rather just got involved with small PC and tech publication and a photo equipment publication. from different side i worked with a team that run motorcycle aftermarket business and followed day by day what it took to get a product publicized in one of the realted mags for review. money and a lot of it. it is not that the reviewer getting paid directly. it rather more like moneys are just vanishing mysteriously into unknown destination and the quality of review will be proportional to amount disappeared.
i think i can safely say that nothing gets published in any mag, be it food, health, hobby or anything else without copious amounts of money changing hands (exact amount of "copious" will of course be dictated by specific market).

perhaps in model railroad business it is completely different. perhaps, but somehow i seriously doubt it. i'm not saying that writers are dishonest, they are honest allright.but there can be many opinions and magazine in control which opinion is published (and how it is published). to put it simply, any review is direct or indirect advertisement and if you want to advertise you need to pay as for any commodity you want to get. this is the capitalistic realty, its not write or wrong, its just the way it is.
here is my money <=> here is your service. simple

interesting note: popular photo magazine for example does a very interesting trick - nothing of what they review comes out bad. this is not because no bad products are made or nothing bad getting reviewed but rather the scale they use to grade the stuff :)
everybody is happy.

[quietly crawls back under his rock]
 
Ethnic Stereotypes

I just finished the long article attached a few replies back pronouncing the lack of PC on the 2003 MR cover with latino banditos.
In 2005 my wife and I took a tour to the Copper Canyon in Mexico. In our special tour car there were two Federalies (sic) with side arms and automatic shoulder weapons. When she asked one why they were there he replied, "The banditos."
PC be damned, let the truth be told.

Armchair
 
stationmaster said:
Alan, I don't remember MRR being so dedicated to the newb. Years ago they WERE a very rounded magazine. Lately, they have chosen to change their focus. Not just in their approach to their focus. They not only have they left the "intermediate" and advanced hobbyists behind, Kalmbach seems to be paying more attention to the manufacturers and suppliers in the hobby. Not a good thing.

As I said earlier, pay attention to the hobby and the hobbyist, and the business end will take care of itself.

If you doubt what I am saying, go back in the library 10-15 years and read some of the articles and compare them with articles today. Pale in comparison.

Bob
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Oh I understand what you're saying, and even agree with some of it. I don't subscribe to MR either...just pick up an issue if I see something that I might be interested in. Sadly, they've left me behind too. I read my first MR in 1968. More ads, yes, unfortunately. Costs are up. Look how many more commercials interrupt your favorite TV show today compared with 10-15 years ago. Same principle. But here's something nobody has mentioned yet. These guys print what people submit. About a year or so ago there was a string of articles on layouts that had been commercially built. There were complaints about this, and the editor's reply was that people were not submitting articles and they had to go with what they had. So all you amateur literary critics out there that have done writing here, and think you can do better, go ahead take a stab at it! MR will print well written articles from anyone, and pay for them. Why not document your next project and submit it. If they turn you down, submit it to another mag, or upload it here. Either way, it works out, and you might find a few extra bucks in your pocket. :D

BTW, I have enjoyed the discussion so far. Playing Devils Advocate is fun!
 
Armchair said:
I just finished the long article attached a few replies back pronouncing the lack of PC on the 2003 MR cover with latino banditos.
In 2005 my wife and I took a tour to the Copper Canyon in Mexico. In our special tour car there were two Federalies (sic) with side arms and automatic shoulder weapons. When she asked one why they were there he replied, "The banditos."
PC be damned, let the truth be told.

Armchair
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There's a considerable difference between riding a modern train that's guarded by soldiers becuase of the very real possibility of a bandit attack and showing a locomotive from what appeared to be Mexican revolutionary times with sterotype "banditos" riding the pilot behind sandbags. I'm not a big PC guy either but this was a 2003 magazine and I see no reason to inflame old wounds.
 
Espeefan said:
MR will print well written articles from anyone, and pay for them. Why not document your next project and submit it. If they turn you down, submit it to another mag, or upload it here. Either way, it works out, and you might find a few extra bucks in your pocket.
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Oh Malarky!
Been there, tried that. Called Andy, was told to go for it. Sent article in, was told by wunderkind Cody that they couldn't use it. Got it published Scale Rails, then a year or so later an almost identical article appears in MR as my 1st article. Since then all my stuff goes to RMC or Scale Rails. I don't need to be part of thier "clique".
 
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