More Newbie Questions

[paper-tiger]

Hi again! Thank you all for your help so far- I would have given up in total frustration on this hobby about fifteen SNAFUs ago without your advice.
I have a few more newbie questions, and I've discovered that I have FAR better luck simply asking you active lot of experts than trolling the internet, searching for a useful tutorial or video. (I prefer text because I can skim and really know whether it'll be useful - videos, you have to actually watch the whole thing to see if it's of use, and it's a waste of time. Anyway, I digress.)

1) I found this 4x8 HO layout that is completely pre-wired, track laid... But no roadbed. I /really/ don't want to have to rip everything apart to add a strip of cork underneath. I'm modeling it in to an urban/industrial downtown scene that will be mostly covered in concrete, asphalt or some sort of man-made material... Do I really NEED the roadbed?

2) The layout is losing power in funny, unexpected places when there are multiple locos running on it. My husband was using his voltage tester on it while I was running two locos simultaneously (no rolling stock) and him applying his tester would make the engines stall until he removed it, but not short out the command control. Weird. Does that mean maybe the layout needs an extra power pack? It's only a 4x8, for Heaven's sake. (Plus the one that goes with my controller is like three hundred dollars, which is insane.)

3) Wiring lighted accessories: How do you do that? I mean, is there a special power box to buy? I have them hooked to my old DC controller right now, but I'm kind of paranoid about turning that and the DCC on at the same time, and it looks messy.

4) The layout has one particular spot where the rails are distinctly uneven between sections. The place is also very near where the locos consistently lose power and require a 'nudge' to keep going. I am wondering if this break is causing the problem. I've soldered the joiner that bridges the gap. Is there a way to shave a little off the high rail or something, to reduce the disparity?

5) I have completely worn out the 'rescue pads' and the other grey ones on my tidy track kit, and I could still spend a quarter of my life de-corroding rails. I think I need a track cleaning car. Any advice on an excellent, /effective/, not ridiculously expensive one? I am not completely certain, but I think this layout has brass track. It's not silver and not painted, in any case. Also probably should have something to clean the wheels on the locos, but I have no idea what that's called or what to look for.

Thank you in advance for your very helpful advice!

 

[Cjcrescent]

In an urban type setting, you don't necessarily need roadbed. Does the layout have any scenery on it at all?

What power unit do you have, and what brand? Did it come with the DCC unit or is it an older power pack.

Using an additional power supply for streetlights, building lights, etc is standard operating procedure. If this power supply is also powering the command unit you need a dedicated power supply for it alone.

How are the rails uneven at the joint. Is one of the rails higher, or are they just not even in the rail joiners? If just uneven, a spot of solder on the outside of the joints could be all that is needed.

Without spending a lot of money, Walthers has a track cleaning car, that has cleaning pads that are dragged along under the car. The pads are made of a substance very similar to their Bright Boy.

If the track is brass, and there is no scenery, I would seriously consider replacing the track with its nickel-silver equivalent. Replacing the track at this point will allow you to have clean track at the get go, and will allow you to fix any bad joints that you currently have. I believe that its imperative, if you have a good power supply, that you do this to locate what sounds to me like a power drain on the system, like a short that's there but not enough to trip the control unit's breaker, that could eventually damage your system.

 

[dave1905]

1) I found this 4x8 HO layout that is completely pre-wired, track laid..

Ahhh, troubleshooting shomebody else's mistakes.

You don't need roadbed if its urban

2) The layout is losing power in funny, unexpected places when there are multiple locos running on it. My husband was using his voltage tester on it while I was running two locos simultaneously (no rolling stock) and him applying his tester would make the engines stall until he removed it, but not short out the command control. Weird. Does that mean maybe the layout needs an extra power pack? It's only a 4x8, for Heaven's sake. (Plus the one that goes with my controller is like three hundred dollars, which is insane.)

Easy solution, stop using the voltage meter while the trains are running. You don't know what the internal wiring of the voltage tester is.

Do the trains act funny when they are just running WITHOUT the voltage tester on the tracks?

3) Wiring lighted accessories: How do you do that? I mean, is there a special power box to buy? I have them hooked to my old DC controller right now, but I'm kind of paranoid about turning that and the DCC on at the same time, and it looks messy.

DO NOT run lighted accessories off the track power supply. DO NOT connect the DCC and the DC to the track at the same time. Run separate wiring for the accessories and building lights, and you can power it off anything that provides the right voltage of power, could be 5 volts or 12 volts. An old power pack is perfect or get some "wall wart" power supplies, like the ones for powering small appliances. When I toss old appliances I keep the power supply to use for powering stuff. As far as being messy, if you drill a hole through the plywood you can run the wires under the layout where nobody will see them.

4) The layout has one particular spot where the rails are distinctly uneven between sections. The place is also very near where the locos consistently lose power and require a 'nudge' to keep going. I am wondering if this break is causing the problem. I've soldered the joiner that bridges the gap. Is there a way to shave a little off the high rail or something, to reduce the disparity?

Since the joint has been soldered, this question is pretty moot, but are both ends of the rail in the rail joiner? It sounds like one rail came out of the rail joiner and is sitting on top of it causing a bump. Since you have already soldered it, its kinda to late to fix the real problem, You can either cut through the joint, put the rails in line and solder them back together or use a file to file down the rails so they are smooth through the joint. The locomotives are stalling because the uneven joint is physically lifting one side of the locomotive off the tracks and the wheels are breaking contact with the rails.

Here is a hint I have learned after many years, the last step is to solder something. Unless you KNOW that an electrical connection is required or that the solder is necessary for mechanical reasons, check out other possibilities before you solder. If you solder an electrical lead to the track, TEST IT BEFORE YOU ATTACH THE NEXT LEAD. Worst case scenario is the newbie who solders all the track and electrical together at once and then turns it on to find a short.

5) I have completely worn out the 'rescue pads' and the other grey ones on my tidy track kit, and I could still spend a quarter of my life de-corroding rails. I think I need a track cleaning car. Any advice on an excellent, /effective/, not ridiculously expensive one? I am not completely certain, but I think this layout has brass track. It's not silver and not painted, in any case. Also probably should have something to clean the wheels on the locos, but I have no idea what that's called or what to look for.

Brass track is a real bummer. When you build your next layout, trash the brass track and buy nickel silver. You can use plain old rubbing alcohol from a drug store to clean the loco wheels. Put some on a paper towel, put the towel on the tracks and then put ONE end of the loco on the towel, then hold the loco and turn on the power to spin the wheels. If that doesn't work, hold power to the wheels and or power pick ups and use alcohol on a Q tip to clean the gunk off the wheels. Clean the track with an eraser, wipe it down with an alcohol wetted towel. Apply either a light coat of sewing machine or hair clipper oil to the track, put ONE drop on a rail and run a train through it and around the layout The oil keeps the rail from oxidizing as much. Another option is to get a stick of graphite (from an art supply store) and rub the clean lightly rails with the graphite stick. Metal wheels on the cars reduce gunk too.

 

[Cjcrescent]

Dave,

You caught some things I missed.

 

[gregc]

My husband was using his voltage tester on it while I was running two locos simultaneously (no rolling stock) and him applying his tester would make the engines stall until he removed it, but not short out the command control. Weird. Does that mean maybe the layout needs an extra power pack?

if you can run two locos anywhere on the layout, then the power pack is ok. There might be dirty track or wheels, or bad connections.

what kind of tester? A multimeter can measure volts, amps and resistance. A voltmeter should not cause the problem but amps would cause a short and i can imagine that measuring resistance might draw some current.

use the voltmeter to see if there is power to the track, and use the ohm meter (resistance) to make sure two points are electrically connected (0 ohms)

3) Wiring lighted accessories: How do you do that? I mean, is there a special power box to buy? I have them hooked to my old DC controller right now, but I'm kind of paranoid about turning that and the DCC on at the same time, and it looks messy.

if the accessories have no wiring in common with the track then there is no problems with using a separate supply for accessories and having DCC connected to the track.

4) The layout has one particular spot where the rails are distinctly uneven between sections.

with the power turned-off, you can file the joint so both rails are even, even if they are soldered.

best of luck -- you'll learn quickly

 

[Iron Horseman]

1) I found this 4x8 HO layout that is completely pre-wired, track laid... But no roadbed. I /really/ don't want to have to rip everything apart to add a strip of cork underneath. I'm modeling it in to an urban/industrial downtown scene that will be mostly covered in concrete, asphalt or some sort of man-made material... Do I really NEED the roadbed?

No, As I recall from the earlier pictures the track looked to be in over all good condition. The roadbed would make the trains sound quieter and would look better as far as looking more like the real thing, but absolutely not needed.

2) The layout is losing power in funny, unexpected places when there are multiple locos running on it. Does that mean maybe the layout needs an extra power pack? It's only a 4x8, for Heaven's sake.

This one is harder to diagnose. Is it always loosing power when the locos are in a similar place? My first guess would be temp short circuits.

3) Wiring lighted accessories: How do you do that? I mean, is there a special power box to buy? I have them hooked to my old DC controller right now, but I'm kind of paranoid about turning that and the DCC on at the same time, and it looks messy.[/quote]There are more ways to do that than one can count. The
AC output of your old DC controller is fine. There should not be any connection between accessories and track. Don't understand the messy comment.

4) The layout has one particular spot where the rails are distinctly uneven between sections. The place is also very near where the locos consistently lose power and require a 'nudge' to keep going. I am wondering if this break is causing the problem. I've soldered the joiner that bridges the gap. Is there a way to shave a little off the high rail or something, to reduce the disparity?

I have a set of tiny metal files to even up rails that are a little high or off to one side.

5) I have completely worn out the 'rescue pads' and the other grey ones on my tidy track kit, and I could still spend a quarter of my life de-corroding rails. I think I need a track cleaning car. Any advice on an excellent, /effective/, not ridiculously expensive one? I am not completely certain, but I think this layout has brass track. It's not silver and not painted, in any case. Also probably should have something to clean the wheels on the locos, but I have no idea what that's called or what to look for.

My guess is that the rescue pads are too abrasive and are scratching the top of the rails. The dirt from the wheels is getting scraped off into those scratches and one instantly has dirty track again. So, lets start with wheels. Choose an easily reachable section of straight track and get a light weight white linen cloth. Put some 91% rubbing alcohol onto the cloth and lay it across the track. Take each train car and run it back and forth on the track covered by the cloth. The cloth should start getting some streaks of grey on it as the dirt comes off the wheels. Continually move the cloth slightly using the clean portions. For locos one can put only one set of wheels on the cloth and apply power so the wheels on the other side turn themselves against the cloth.

As for the track, if you have used some abrasive on it, it might need to be polished. Get a 10x magnifying glass and look to see if it is scratched. If so I would recommend some very fine wet/dry sand paper (like 1000 grit) to reduce the size of the scratches. Then rub it with aluminum oxide (like they use in a rock tumbler). Others have used Ma's Mag Wheel Polish, Brasso, or similar products. When you can't see any scratches in the rail, rub a light (very very light) coat of some electrically conductive greaseless lubrication such as LPS-1 (but not, no,t not, not WD-40 it has the opposite effect and actually attracts dirt). I have been meaning to try some of the no-ox copper treatments but have yet to find time for such an experiment.

 

[paper-tiger]

What fantastic responses... Thank you SO much!

@Iron Horseman - you gave me some extremely good advice in the initial TTFH thread... and I have eventually followed it mostly, but had a pretty steep learning curve in basic terminology and wiring to understand your instructions. I'm still discovering things about the track and then thinking 'Oh, someone on the forum told me about that but I didn't really know what they meant.' I think most of your comments have been addressed in the following responses,except the track cleaning bit. I've never used anything but a Lysol wipe (initially when I got it, to remove dust) and the Woodland Scenics Tidy Track system. I have no idea what the previous owner did, though. I will definitely find a lens and take a look! Do you have any speciic recommendations on the tiny files? I am pretty sure there is at least one connection that will require some work.

@CJcrescent

Does the layout have any scenery on it at all?

At this time, it is bare plywood with track directly laid on top. I have ballast for some pieces and have conceptualized a lot of it, but am waiting to figure out the wiring issues and ensure that the locos run consistently before I get too involved with the scenery. While that's my favorite part, I know that if I skip the wiring parts, all my modeling work will be useless if the layout won't run. So: troubleshooting FIRST!

What power unit do you have, and what brand? Did it come with the DCC unit or is it an older power pack.

I started on this layout with 'some old used one' that a dealer sold me for a $35. That one is still powering the motorized turnouts - or at least, the ones that are working - although it is otherwise completely disconnected from the track. I bought a Bachmann EZ Command when my DC controller went caput on the other table , which is all EZ Trak, thinking that would be my 'good' layout and I could fiddle with this one. Turns out the mystery secondhand sixth grader did better with DC and brass track than I've been able to do with EZ Track. I connected the DCC to this table (the TTFH) out of pure curiosity, and discovered that it worked better for our uses almost immediately. I'm a hobbyist whether I want to be or not, but the real interests in the household are, in order of importance: 'watching trains run incredibly slowly', 'listening to the horn and bell', 'fiddling with cars in the switching yard' (by hand, not by engine and switch) and 'building beautiful realistic sceneryand models'. I don't anticipate the layout going any further than a 4x8 in this house and this point in our lives.

If the track is brass, and there is no scenery, I would seriously consider replacing the track with its nickel-silver equivalent. Replacing the track at this point will allow you to have clean track at the get go, and will allow you to fix any bad joints that you currently have. I believe that its imperative, if you have a good power supply, that you do this to locate what sounds to me like a power drain on the system, like a short that's there but not enough to trip the control unit's breaker, that could eventually damage your system.

That is somewhat unlikely on any major scale at this point in time, but I am coming to realize that model railroading is not about saving money initially, it's about better usability in the long view. Why nickel silver, out of curiosity? And how do you tell whether unlabeled track is steel or nickel silver? My budget is pretty seriously limited, so I tend to look for everything secondhand as much as possible. My brass track, I cleaned with rubbing alcohol, then scrubbed to a sheen with the rescue pads, maintenance pads, cleaning and then finishing steps of the Tidy Track thingie. I actually really like that. It SIGNIFICANTLY improved the operation of the whole table!

@dave1905

Do the trains act funny when they are just running WITHOUT the voltage tester on the tracks?

They tend to cut out in two specific places (although not always and sometimes they don't cut out it if they're going fast, but they also sometimes don't if they're going slow. I have polished the track to a fair-thee-well. I have checked the wiring, inasmuch as I understand to look for. I have soldered the joiners in the places I imagine they might be a problem. I am running very basic DCC (Bachmann EZ Command) with two locos on a 4x8 double loop with what appears to be six power blocks. Everything assumes all power blocks ON. It was originally built for two cabs, but I have since removed the on/off switches for the cabs and just set everything to 'A'. so they should be operational. At some point I might be able to take off the reverser/cab control, but I need to figure out the turntable.
They also don't seem to like it when I go in to Function mode to run the bell and horn. I can't get the lights to respond on either of my locos, but I haven't researched them specifically, just pushed the 1-10 buttons in 'function mode'. An issue with my controller being crummy by 'real modeler' standards, I'm sure. If I set the horn and bell off on one or both, neither runs very well and requires a little nudge to get it going again. I tend to take a loco off the tracks when my son wants the functions operating. (He loves "The Noisiest Train in the WORLD!" Lord help us.)

An old power pack is perfect or get some "wall wart" power supplies, like the ones for powering small appliances. When I toss old appliances I keep the power supply to use for powering stuff. As far as being messy, if you drill a hole through the plywood you can run the wires under the layout where nobody will see them.

Phew! Okay, good. It was working the way I had it (DCC to rails, DC to accessories ONLY) but I wasn't sure. It's messy because I have two controllers on the control 'peninsula' and one works while the other one doesn't, and there are wires all over. If I can mount the 'old' DC controller under the bench and let it just run power through the 'accessory' screws to lighting and/or turnouts, without having to make any changes to the throttle or worrying about electrical disagreements between the two power packs, that would solve the problems. It's the turnout motors where two different kinds of power can potentially meet that made me nervous.


The joiner question @all:

This is the joint that I think may be causing and/or contributing to the problem. This is the best shot I could accomplish, I apologize. It was soldered before I acquired the layout. There is a 0.5 to 1mm gap between the 'top' and 'bottom' rails that is very noticeable if you run a fingertip over it. Granted, there are other places on the layout where gaps somewhat like this exist, but they aren't at a point where trains stop working, so they're not really in question. the joiners appear to be positioned correctly. As a wrench in the gears, this rail joint abuts a bridge that is also the only rerailer in the layout, and a beautiful piece unto itself.

Worst case scenario is the newbie who solders all the track and electrical together at once and then turns it on to find a short.

Good grief, I've used exclusively EZ Trak up until I found this table specifically to AVOID soldering anything. Terrible idea, wiring. You know, beautiful - but terrible. I didn't even have a soldering, uh, "thingie" until my husband showed up with the tool, the solder, the de-soldering braid business, and a can-do-while-I'm-interested attitude. Now I have one, and I would still rather clean and sand all day than use that thing. hehe


@gregc

what kind of tester? A multimeter can measure volts, amps and resistance. A voltmeter should not cause the problem but amps would cause a short and i can imagine that measuring resistance might draw some current.

I don't know, to be honest. He's a student electrician and has a ridiculous bag of tools, so it could be anything. I'm pretty sure he feels the same way about my sewing kit when he brings me pants to repair. I rely on him to tell me the idiot version of anything he discovers. I'll ask him when he's home again!

 

[Mark R.]

Just to touch on a couple items - your husband's tester probably has a 12 volt bulb in it for testing continuity. The amperage draw of the bulb is probably sufficient to take away from the engine. I have one of those old testers and the bulb is an automotive type bulb that draws a fair bit of current. Great for testing wiring in your car, not so much on a model railroad.

Brass vs nickel silver track .... all bare metals oxidize. The difference is that brass oxide doesn't conduct electricity, so you will be constantly keeping the track shined up. Nickel silver oxide will conduct electricity, so your cleaning times are greatly reduced. There is some steel track out there - which looks like nickel silver when new - and it can easily be determined by a magnet. A magnet will stick to steel track, but not nickel silver.

Mark.

 

[Iron Horseman]

Do you have any speciic recommendations on the tiny files? I am pretty sure there is at least one connection that will require some work.

For your purposes I think something like this set would do the job just fine:
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-piece-precision-needle-file-set-4614.html

Why nickel silver, out of curiosity? And how do you tell whether unlabeled track is steel or nickel silver?

Just looking at the pictures I've seen I would say it is brass. The way to tell is the color. Nickel-silver is silver colored, and brass is more yellow brassy colored. Nickel Silver is a different compound of brass (has 20% nickel) and is less prone to oxidation. Brass track served the model railroad community well for 50 years. I've been using nickel-silver track since the early 1960's, but don't really have the harsh "feelings" toward it that some others do. It seems the folks that discovered it much later (mid 1980s) are the ones that seem to have the greatest animosity toward it. It conducts electricity better than nickel-silver and for that reason I seriously considered using it for my first DCC layout (that would solve a lot of the need for a bus and all those feeders), but by that time it was very hard to find at the stores. I think unless the layout is in a non-climate controlled environement (garage, unheated basement, attic) that there isn't really that much difference in cleaning. Our club has fought the cleanliness of nickel-silver for years. Tried everything know to model railroadum and still seemed to always have dirty track. One just learns to cope.

They tend to cut out in two specific places with two locos on a 4x8 double loop

By any chance is it then the loco is going into or coming out of a curve onto a straight? Might not be the track itself but how the loco is tracking through it.

This is the joint that I think may be causing and/or contributing to the problem.

It doesn't look pretty but I don't see any electrical issues with it. It might be that the bump is lifting the loco's wheels funny and hence loosing contact with the track. I've seen much worse bumps that don't cause problems. Different locos react differently to aberrations in the track. My only advice would be to repeatedly watch a loco go through the section watching the wheels to determine exactly if something goes wrong (bump, shift to one side) right when it looses power.

 

[trailrider]

When I built my second layout in the 1970's, I switched from brass track with fiber ties to nickel silver, mainly because nickel silver was available and brass was becoming rare. Nonetheless, I had a bunch of brass left over from my teenage layout years. I used it for sidings and spurs. Some of the Atlas turnouts were also brass, and, as a matter of fact, I still have a couple on my main line on my current layout, simply because they fit. As far as cleaning is concerned, I simply use a "Bright Boy" once in awhile. I also occasionally give all my track a LIGHT application of Wahl electric (hair clipper) oil, which is conductive. You can't overdo it because it will cause wheels to pick up dirt. But it does help sometimes.

I would suspect that uneven joint at the bridge to be lifting the locomoitve wheels out of contact. Frankly, I would cut the track on the bridge just short of the joint. Then I would cut back the track on the other side of the joint for a distance of, say six inches or so, and cut a spare piece to fit in. I would shim the end of the non-bridge piece to match the height of the bridge rails. I'd use rail joiners at first, and see if that helps the situation. If it does, you can solder the joints. Make sure when you shim, you do it so there is a gentle transition from the rest of the layout.

 

[Cjcrescent]

What fantastic responses... Thank you SO much!




The joiner question @all:
View attachment 48109

[/COLOR]

PT,

Others have pointed out the differences between the brass and nickel-silver track. Looking at the soldered joint, if you look closely at the joint closest to you from where you took the picture, the solder is only touching on one side of the joint. I would suggest taking either a file, wire brush or wire wheel and clean the other side of the joint, until it shines. Then take a hot soldering iron and spread the solder across the rest of the joint. While doing this, take a small screwdriver and hold the rails as level to each other as possible. Remove the iron, and keep the screwdriver in place until the joint has totally cooled.

It looks like the the other joint is slightly pushed to one side, so you may want to heat the other joint and try to get it into better alignment, using the iron and the screwdriver to accomplish this.

Then take a file and file level both the top and inside of the rails. Check the smoothness with a finger. I would also file the top and inside of the other rail.

Since you've said that there are two other places where the train lose power at times, I would also check the soldered joints in these areas. If they are right after a turnout, there is a chance that its the turnout causing this. What I would do here, is to run a set of jumpers from the outer stock rails of the turnout, These are the longest pieces of rail in the turnout. One is curved, and the other is straight. To install a new jumper, take a small piece of wire, solder it to the outside of one of the stock rails. Pass it under the turnout, and solder it to the out side of the corresponding rail.

This little diagram shows you where to put the jumpers. Also if your locos are losing power through the turnouts, the section where the points and closure rails may not be making a good contact. There is a part of the diagram showing what to do as well. I hope that this helps.

Good luck!

 

[unkaboose]

What fantastic responses... Thank you SO much!

@Iron Horseman - you gave me some extremely good advice in the initial TTFH thread... and I have eventually followed it mostly, but had a pretty steep learning curve in basic terminology and wiring to understand your instructions. I'm still discovering things about the track and then thinking 'Oh, someone on the forum told me about that but I didn't really know what they meant.' I think most of your comments have been addressed in the following responses,except the track cleaning bit. I've never used anything but a Lysol wipe (initially when I got it, to remove dust) and the Woodland Scenics Tidy Track system. I have no idea what the previous owner did, though. I will definitely find a lens and take a look! Do you have any speciic recommendations on the tiny files? I am pretty sure there is at least one connection that will require some work.

@CJcrescent
At this time, it is bare plywood with track directly laid on top. I have ballast for some pieces and have conceptualized a lot of it, but am waiting to figure out the wiring issues and ensure that the locos run consistently before I get too involved with the scenery. While that's my favorite part, I know that if I skip the wiring parts, all my modeling work will be useless if the layout won't run. So: troubleshooting FIRST!


I started on this layout with 'some old used one' that a dealer sold me for a $35. That one is still powering the motorized turnouts - or at least, the ones that are working - although it is otherwise completely disconnected from the track. I bought a Bachmann EZ Command when my DC controller went caput on the other table , which is all EZ Trak, thinking that would be my 'good' layout and I could fiddle with this one. Turns out the mystery secondhand sixth grader did better with DC and brass track than I've been able to do with EZ Track. I connected the DCC to this table (the TTFH) out of pure curiosity, and discovered that it worked better for our uses almost immediately. I'm a hobbyist whether I want to be or not, but the real interests in the household are, in order of importance: 'watching trains run incredibly slowly', 'listening to the horn and bell', 'fiddling with cars in the switching yard' (by hand, not by engine and switch) and 'building beautiful realistic sceneryand models'. I don't anticipate the layout going any further than a 4x8 in this house and this point in our lives.


That is somewhat unlikely on any major scale at this point in time, but I am coming to realize that model railroading is not about saving money initially, it's about better usability in the long view. Why nickel silver, out of curiosity? And how do you tell whether unlabeled track is steel or nickel silver? My budget is pretty seriously limited, so I tend to look for everything secondhand as much as possible. My brass track, I cleaned with rubbing alcohol, then scrubbed to a sheen with the rescue pads, maintenance pads, cleaning and then finishing steps of the Tidy Track thingie. I actually really like that. It SIGNIFICANTLY improved the operation of the whole table!

@dave1905
[/COLOR]
They tend to cut out in two specific places (although not always and sometimes they don't cut out it if they're going fast, but they also sometimes don't if they're going slow. I have polished the track to a fair-thee-well. I have checked the wiring, inasmuch as I understand to look for. I have soldered the joiners in the places I imagine they might be a problem. I am running very basic DCC (Bachmann EZ Command) with two locos on a 4x8 double loop with what appears to be six power blocks. Everything assumes all power blocks ON. It was originally built for two cabs, but I have since removed the on/off switches for the cabs and just set everything to 'A'. so they should be operational. At some point I might be able to take off the reverser/cab control, but I need to figure out the turntable.
They also don't seem to like it when I go in to Function mode to run the bell and horn. I can't get the lights to respond on either of my locos, but I haven't researched them specifically, just pushed the 1-10 buttons in 'function mode'. An issue with my controller being crummy by 'real modeler' standards, I'm sure. If I set the horn and bell off on one or both, neither runs very well and requires a little nudge to get it going again. I tend to take a loco off the tracks when my son wants the functions operating. (He loves "The Noisiest Train in the WORLD!" Lord help us.)


Phew! Okay, good. It was working the way I had it (DCC to rails, DC to accessories ONLY) but I wasn't sure. It's messy because I have two controllers on the control 'peninsula' and one works while the other one doesn't, and there are wires all over. If I can mount the 'old' DC controller under the bench and let it just run power through the 'accessory' screws to lighting and/or turnouts, without having to make any changes to the throttle or worrying about electrical disagreements between the two power packs, that would solve the problems. It's the turnout motors where two different kinds of power can potentially meet that made me nervous.


The joiner question @all:
View attachment 48109
This is the joint that I think may be causing and/or contributing to the problem. This is the best shot I could accomplish, I apologize. It was soldered before I acquired the layout. There is a 0.5 to 1mm gap between the 'top' and 'bottom' rails that is very noticeable if you run a fingertip over it. Granted, there are other places on the layout where gaps somewhat like this exist, but they aren't at a point where trains stop working, so they're not really in question. the joiners appear to be positioned correctly. As a wrench in the gears, this rail joint abuts a bridge that is also the only rerailer in the layout, and a beautiful piece unto itself.





Good grief, I've used exclusively EZ Trak up until I found this table specifically to AVOID soldering anything. Terrible idea, wiring. You know, beautiful - but terrible. I didn't even have a soldering, uh, "thingie" until my husband showed up with the tool, the solder, the de-soldering braid business, and a can-do-while-I'm-interested attitude. Now I have one, and I would still rather clean and sand all day than use that thing. hehe


@gregc

I don't know, to be honest. He's a student electrician and has a ridiculous bag of tools, so it could be anything. I'm pretty sure he feels the same way about my sewing kit when he brings me pants to repair. I rely on him to tell me the idiot version of anything he discovers. I'll ask him when he's home again!

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thats a rough looking joint, looks like the solder may have beaded up due to corrosion , there may not be a good connection. if it were me id reheat it and remove as much as possible and clean it very good, then resolder as smoothly as possible or at least replace those to pieces of track