I'll be taking my layout down soon as selling my house. Will be rebuilding and plan on seting up layout for operating.I already know what NOT to do from my mistakes and would like any and all recomendations to see layout instruction for setting up new layout built with operation in mind. Anyone know any bookds , mags, you tube;s for reference? Anyone? thanks Tommy
layout for ops
- Thread starter tomytuna
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D&J RailRoad
Professor of HO
That would be heavily weighted by the area you have to work with.
D&J RailRoad
Professor of HO
As you noted, you didn't want to repeat your mistakes. Make a list of good and bad points that you recall with your experience in building and operating a layout. Keep that list handy so you can add to it as your recall stuff.
Make another list of what you want in a layout. List stuff like operating mode; DC or DCC. Determine what operating system you want to use; Digitrax, NCE, LokSound etc.
Determine the area you want to model; the desert south west, mountain railroading, open plains or city.
Determine the era you want to model, i.e. steam, diesel or transition period.
Determine what the primary industries are that you want to model. This will be influenced by the area you want to model.
Your industries will primarily support each other, i.e. steel mills/steel handlers, coal facility/coal industries, Oil/industries that use oil. In other words, have a place to deliver products unless you have a staging yard that acts as the outside world to your operating division.
Determine if you want a classification yard and how big. How long of a train can you build in it? Do you need a locomotive facility? Those usually are co-located with the yard.
Determine if you want to run a signal system. That will soak up money and time, but the pay off is astronomical in operations as well as visitor highlights. You can run a mix of interlocking signals and simple turnout controlled signals. The turnout controlled signals can usually be limited to the yard and sidings while the interlocking will be on the mainline and will monitor block occupancy and turnout settings.
Usually a 4x8 sheet of plywood dooms you to a small operation and limits on where your trains can go. No staging yard potential, broadest curve will be 22" radius. It takes up the predominance of the room it's built in.
A shelf layout around the room perimeter provides broader curves, a longer run for your trains, a means to access a staging yard, more industries, easier elevation changes and potential for multilevel and minimal footprint in the room. A signal system would look much better on a shelf layout around the room than on a sheet of plywood in the middle of the room a desk can be fit under the shelf layout for a work area.
Make another list of what you want in a layout. List stuff like operating mode; DC or DCC. Determine what operating system you want to use; Digitrax, NCE, LokSound etc.
Determine the area you want to model; the desert south west, mountain railroading, open plains or city.
Determine the era you want to model, i.e. steam, diesel or transition period.
Determine what the primary industries are that you want to model. This will be influenced by the area you want to model.
Your industries will primarily support each other, i.e. steel mills/steel handlers, coal facility/coal industries, Oil/industries that use oil. In other words, have a place to deliver products unless you have a staging yard that acts as the outside world to your operating division.
Determine if you want a classification yard and how big. How long of a train can you build in it? Do you need a locomotive facility? Those usually are co-located with the yard.
Determine if you want to run a signal system. That will soak up money and time, but the pay off is astronomical in operations as well as visitor highlights. You can run a mix of interlocking signals and simple turnout controlled signals. The turnout controlled signals can usually be limited to the yard and sidings while the interlocking will be on the mainline and will monitor block occupancy and turnout settings.
Usually a 4x8 sheet of plywood dooms you to a small operation and limits on where your trains can go. No staging yard potential, broadest curve will be 22" radius. It takes up the predominance of the room it's built in.
A shelf layout around the room perimeter provides broader curves, a longer run for your trains, a means to access a staging yard, more industries, easier elevation changes and potential for multilevel and minimal footprint in the room. A signal system would look much better on a shelf layout around the room than on a sheet of plywood in the middle of the room a desk can be fit under the shelf layout for a work area.
Iron Horseman
Well-Known Member
I would start by asking what your definition of "operation" is. There are many forms of operation from what I consider to be a "Dispatcher's Delight" where the idea is to get as many trains (as much cargo) through the system during a session (much more challenging on a single track main line obviously), or on the other end of the spectrum is switching puzzles where the object is to rearrange a set of cars into the "final destinations" in the shortest amount of time. Somewhere in that continuum is the way freight that goes through the layout working the industries in towns along the way. Some people consider operations to be making up and breaking up trains in yards. I guess I'm saying which ever aspects of operating a layout are of interest to you will dictate the track design. Another distinction is do you know if you want to run on a schedule, more dispatcher, or a more "extra" train type arrangement?
One of my favorite arrangements for small layouts is the out and back. That way one needs only to consume the space for 1 yard and can have much more room for other towns and their industries. Favors some yard drilling and way freight trains. One just has to be accepting enough, or have enough imagination to pretend the yard at either end of the run is a different place.
D&J RailRoad
Professor of HO
Another thing to consider for operations is: You don't have to deliver all the cars in the train. Remember, your layout is a compressed version of a railroad division or whatever. That means, even though you have a couple oil tankers, some box cars, a few flats and a gondola to deliver, you don't have to have a place to deliver all the cars in your train because of the compression of the layout, those additional sidings aren't actually visible.
So run a 25 car train of which you will only have 3 industries to deliver 15 of those cars to. The remaining industries are all in your mind.
So run a 25 car train of which you will only have 3 industries to deliver 15 of those cars to. The remaining industries are all in your mind.
Decide what you mean by "operation". Operating multiple trains at once? TT&TO? car forwarding methods? Switching ? Industrial or classification? Signal systems? Single track, multiple track, current of traffic? 1900's? Steam era? Pre staggers? Modern?
Then do your research on what you have chosen. Focusing on a particular era and location helps narrow the options. Even if you want to freelance having a focal point is a big plus. The OpSig is coming out with a new Operations book.
Then decide what elements you need to accomplish those goals. Operation is best when you design the operation into the layout rather than design the layout and then figure out how to operate it.
Then do your research on what you have chosen. Focusing on a particular era and location helps narrow the options. Even if you want to freelance having a focal point is a big plus. The OpSig is coming out with a new Operations book.
Then decide what elements you need to accomplish those goals. Operation is best when you design the operation into the layout rather than design the layout and then figure out how to operate it.
You actually don't have to deliver a single car. I know a gentleman who modeled the C&O in O scale, including a full CTC panel and no cars were spotted anywhere. The entire operating session was the movement of trains.
Iron Horseman
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is what I was calling a "dispatcher" type operation. This is also the bulk of the "operation" on the museum's layout. CTC panel and the object is to move the trains through the system with minimal delay.
There are also two board games that simulate this form of operation. One is a bookshelf game called "C&O B&O" and the other simply "Dispatcher". Unfortunately both have achieve "collectors" status so to find one is an expensive proposition. I suppose one could make a model railroad layout matching the game board(s).
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I've had all these idea's in my head about ops. These past 3 days I participated in and on 4 different layouts. 2 were home layout and 2 were club layouts, Not being familiar with the layouts I was a little nervous, but the superintendants (owners) were just super in every aspect dealing with "new" guys on the layouts. Boy did I learn a TON about operations. From card forwarding to just train orders with switching along the way, trailing and facing turnouts etc etc. Can see how addicting ops can and will be.
Tommy, I am a beginner but would like to mention something that hasn't been brought up in this thread.
Once you design the track plan and industries (I probably can't tell you anything you don't already know about those) are you planning to use computer software for your operations? If you haven't in the past you may want to look into it.
I am setting up JMRI Operations as I build my layout and think it's great. Arthur Houston has a detailed 4 part series on it on YouTube.
Sorry if this is old news to you.
Good luck!
Once you design the track plan and industries (I probably can't tell you anything you don't already know about those) are you planning to use computer software for your operations? If you haven't in the past you may want to look into it.
I am setting up JMRI Operations as I build my layout and think it's great. Arthur Houston has a detailed 4 part series on it on YouTube.
Sorry if this is old news to you.
Good luck!
The other thing about operations is that once you understand how railroad traffic flows, then you can decide what you want to model.
My layout is relatively simple and you wouldn't necessarily think of ops when you first look at it. It looks like a just another loop of track layout at first glance. I only have 4 industry sidings off the mainline, a sorting track (mini yard) and a passing siding. Two of those industries are team tracks, one is a medium sized industry and the other a large industry.
Once you know what you want to see then the other thing is staging. This is behind the scenes setting up. You don't need a visible yard to have operations. In real life the nearest real sorting yard can be several hundred miles from the industry.
I currently have a back to back reverse loop set up in a U shape to keep the steam locomotives facing forward. The modeled part of the layout is most of one loop and inside the second loop is the staging yard. I have 3 tracks. 1 is for the northern terminus, 1 for the southern terminus and the last for local industries on my railroad but not inside the modeled area. Plus a track for special/ passenger cars.
I model everything except the yard work and two track mainline part of operations.
One other consideration is the era of your layout. My layout is set in 1925. Shorter trains and single car switching were common then. I even included a rickety branchline/shortline connection for operational interest.
Most viable industries today are huge and ship multiple cars, even unit trains. Railroads are focused on running longer trains to fewer customers.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
My layout is relatively simple and you wouldn't necessarily think of ops when you first look at it. It looks like a just another loop of track layout at first glance. I only have 4 industry sidings off the mainline, a sorting track (mini yard) and a passing siding. Two of those industries are team tracks, one is a medium sized industry and the other a large industry.
Once you know what you want to see then the other thing is staging. This is behind the scenes setting up. You don't need a visible yard to have operations. In real life the nearest real sorting yard can be several hundred miles from the industry.
I currently have a back to back reverse loop set up in a U shape to keep the steam locomotives facing forward. The modeled part of the layout is most of one loop and inside the second loop is the staging yard. I have 3 tracks. 1 is for the northern terminus, 1 for the southern terminus and the last for local industries on my railroad but not inside the modeled area. Plus a track for special/ passenger cars.
I model everything except the yard work and two track mainline part of operations.
One other consideration is the era of your layout. My layout is set in 1925. Shorter trains and single car switching were common then. I even included a rickety branchline/shortline connection for operational interest.
Most viable industries today are huge and ship multiple cars, even unit trains. Railroads are focused on running longer trains to fewer customers.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
montanan
Whiskey Merchant
I am the opposite. Not having a lot of room, I built my layout for switching. The layout is a point to point with hidden staging that will allow continuous running. There a=is a yard and engine facility at each end. I bring a train in from the hidden staging tracks into one of the two yards. The train is broken down and a local freight is made up delivering cars to various industries and picking up outbound cars. These cars are returned to one of the yards and an outbound train is made up and sent off int the hidden staging tracks.
