Layout Advice


M

mbrunne

New Member
After about a dozen tries, here's one that seems to "have legs."

I'd appreciate any advice. I'm totally new at this. Is there something I'm missing that you veterans can see?

It's HO scale

1949-1959 era

The dimensions are as shown; the bottom is fully open, with a furnace a few feet away. I've got a minimum 1' walk around the whole layout. I'm fairly tall (6'-2"), so I think I can handle a 3' reach w/out a "doughnut" configuration.

I'm strictly following NMRA standards (S-6, S-7, S-8, RP-11, etc), w/ 24" R minimum & No. 6 turnouts. I have a few Walthers/Shinohara 6 1/2 curved turnouts also.

I'd like to get something in the size of a Berksire or Makado steam & +/- 50' diesels. From what I'm reading, the radii & turnout sizes should work w/ those two types. But will it work for smaller suburban passenger service? And what type of smaller passenger cars are available?

I'm not showing bridges, all the roads, structures, etc., but just enough to get some feedback.

Again, thank you for your advice.

Here's a screen shot:
 
If the design suits you and what you want out of your modelling experience at this point, I'd say it is fine. You will operate this from the center, I take it, so a reach to any one spot won't be a problem. Otherwise, you'll have a major problem when things go wrong just six inches beyond your finger nails.

If I had one glaring issue, it would be with the lengths of your staging or yard tracks that are butt-ended near the roundhouse. They are quite a bit too short to do much good for you. You should re-orient them anti-clockwise another 6-10 degrees, and extend them toward that curve off of which the throat comes. Also, at least one runaround capability should be built into those tracks so that on one track an engine that must lead in can escape.
 
Wow you registered a year ago and this is your first post? Welcome, besides the length of yard tracks it looks good. Without Any track In the middle it would be fairly easy to put a pop up in the middle of the layout. Yes you can reach the middle but try to spend a few hours trying to scenic it and you'll wish you had a pop up. For me atleast a huge benifit of a pop up is that you can build it just at your work bench and drop it in. Only other advice would be watch the products your using, being close to a furnace you don't want to take any chances. Not to be stupid but what does the bottom is fully open mean? Is it suspended from the celing or something.
 
Hello and first of all good luck.
I would do a pop up either way. Doesnt mean you ever have to use it.
I have had half a dozen layouts over the years and I feel you are doing to much to start but that is just me.
I would start the yard tracks further back at the approach switch (where the river is and move the river up toward the road) and start switching there and rotate them Selector said. I would go with 3 or 4 yard tracks that a longer. I would also only have the one siding in the forground and have it go longer where the second one is.
One foot around is not very much to get thru. I would consider putting it against 2 walls and making the layout bigger with a pop or a cockpit up myself.
Make sure you have good access to the inside of the tunnel even if it is from underneath.
Remember to have fun and good luck.
 
Thanks for all your advice.

I think I'm going to go with a cockpit (in red on the attachment), and actually increase the size. I've been doing some more reading on this forum and elsewhere. It sounds like the whole reach thing is a bigger issue than I was thinking.

The space I have is a 7' x 10' nook in my basement. Three sides are surrounded by walls but the bottom ten feet is completely open with no wall, just a furnace about 3' away. That would give me about 58 sq. ft of table top and I could get bigger radius tracks, and all kinds of opportunities for scenery, structures, etc.

I know it's big, FunValleyLine. But as Mike 8693 noted, I registered over a year ago and this is my first post, so I'm not in a big hurry. Anyway, it's for my son (at least that's what I tell everyone) and he's only 17 months old. So we're going to have a long time.

I'll post again for your critiques when I get more track designed. Maybe in 8 months.;)

Thanks again for the tips.
 
My present layout is 24x24 in a 24x32 building so I dont think yours is too big. However being over complex as a beginner can be overwhelming when you change your mind when you find out how things work. You will like the cockpit. Remember to have fun.
 
looks like you have some good advice so far. One thing I noticed that you basicly have all mainline. You have no sidings to a buisness to set/pickup cars. The yard will hold your cars but you need a place to bring them. Another thing and this is just my opinion on a "small" layouts. 24" radius might be over kill for the length of trains and locos you will be running. obviously the larger the radius the better but when space is an issue 22" does just fine. I run 22" with 2-8-2 and 4-8-2 steam with no troubles 40' freight cars and some passenger cars also make the curves with ease.

Just my .02;)

trent
 
Sidings? I though I had them

Imackattack,

I thought I had sidings. I understood a siding was a branch that would take me off the mainline. It sounds like I'm wrong. Do you have any links that would show me what a siding actually is?

Also, the fact that you're running 2-8-4s on 22" is encouraging. I've been living and dying by those NMRA standards.

Thanks for the input.
 
The standards are a guide line doesnt mean other things dont work and it all depends on what you are running or using. You are right have sidings but they seem short and dont give much room for many cars or businesses.
 
Cockpit plan

Thanks again for the feedback.

Here's the latest, with a cockpit. My minimum radius is 20" on the south turn into the yard and a couple bends on the branchline. Mainline is 26.5".

The longest reach is 27", to the table edge, and 2' to any track. The top and sides have walls, and the bottom is open.

I think I have long enough sidings/yard/industries turn outs.

My gut tells me this is a manageable and effective layout, and much better than the last one.

What do you think?
 
I agree it is an improvement....give yourself a pat on the back. :D

But, we have a way to go.

First, what does this railroad do? How does it pay for its labour, for its engines and rolling stock? What about all the infrastructure? It needs a way to make a buck. I don't see that in your plan. All I see is leaving and entering a yard, even if by a slightly varied circuitous route.

Let me tell you what I like: I like your cross-over at top center...works and should be fun to use...but functional at the same time. Thumbs-up! I like your twin tracking...will really help to run trains in opposite directions. I like that you feel the engine servicing is important enough to include in your limited space. It also adds variety and fun and realism all at the same time.

The problems are this: no revenue generation....yet. You need spurs leading off to a warehouse, or to a mine, or to a logging operation, or to a brewery...to some operation that will pay you to lay some track, even if bumpy and rickety, to take their "stuff" to market.

Secondly, the very bottom and very short track in your yard. It's gotta go. It can be used to park an engine and maybe one car or two, and what is the point of that? What I would do is to cut that track back about 3/4 of its way, and place a turnout at the curve of the one above it leading on to what's left of that lower parallel track. Now you have a runaround or a caboose track.

Finally, and then I'll stop...if you could shove your turntable and roundhouse about 4" or more to the north, you might be able to get a few more inches out of your yard by reorienting it anti-clockwise.

You are doing marvellously...you have an open and inquiring mind, and have managed to keep your gritted teeth out of your replies. :D Hang in there!

-Crandell
 
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Sorry for my confusion,;) I was refering to a siding or spur that leads off of the mainline to a coal mine or a branch that leads to a grain silo etc...

This layout is better but as Selector said, you still dont have a place to bring your freight cars after you make up a freight train in the yard. Yards hold freight cars that will soon be sent out to a local buisness for goods pickups drop offs etc... I think your tunnel aera at the lower left corner would be a great place to have a few spur tracks to a couple of buisness. Also a sspur to the back of the town aera would add a nice touch. If you want to add a little more excitement I would eleavate both mainline tracks about 3-4" and leave the center yard aera at "ground level" the track from the main to the yard would bring your train to the lower "ground level" This way you dont have to have a tunnel and it still adds elevation to the layout.

your doing a good job!;)

Trent
 
Very nice progress! You are doing well and headed in the right direction. As the guys said what is your RR revenue going to be? Grain, coal, ore, merchandise, passengers...etc you know what we are getting at...making you RR work adds interests and interaction to the layout...

Good luck and I look forward to your progress!
 
Much improved plan but, as the other guys have said, you have a nice mainline railroad that has nothing to do. :) You need some industries for the railroad to serve. Just for general information, a siding is a track usually used for two tracns to pass one another on a single track line. It is connected on both ends back to the main. A spur is any dead-end track but usually describes a track that serves an industry. It would also help to know what part of the country you're modeling and if you have a specific prototype in mind.
 
Indrustries, Spurs, Sidings, etc

Excellent feedback! Exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks.

To answer some questions: the location is small town in west central Ohio. The industry is grain, hence "coop" (as in grain cooperative) south of the yard and north of the tunnel. I've got a grain elevator and milling & feed store shown. 1940s to early 50s

The town will have a very small B&O type station (Laser Kit "Springfield Station") south of the cross-over. I plan to run primarily B&O and C&O, and some smaller passenger cars.


UP2CSX, thanks for the definitions. I put a spur at the coop. I'll probably put a lane between the elevator & mill and the south yard rail. I've got about 35' scaled distance.

Selector, I'm not sure which yard tracks you're talking about. But I did move the roundhouse north and lengthened two yard tracks. It seems to work better.

I also reworked the switching at the coop. I think it's more logical now.

Let me know what you think. And thanks again.
 
You have six yard tracks south of the turntable. The sixth, the one furthest south, should have enough of it removed, starting from the right, that a turnout placed on the curve of the track just north of it would allow access to what is left of that southern-most yard track. Or, in other words, place a turnout at the curve of the fifth track so that you can intersect the sixth. Then eliminate all of the sixth track east of that new turnout. You now have a caboose track or a RIP (repair in place) track, or a runaround...whatever. But the sixth track offers you very little as it is configured. Just my thinking...others may have better ideas or disagree.

I hope that makes more sense.
 
Hi,

(Ooooohhh the Ghost of MRF past:eek:)

I'm entering the conversation late, but first I suggest that you read my "Beginner's Guide to Layout Design." It takes about 5 minutes to read.

From your design, I gather that what you are intending to do is put together a train in your yard, run a couple laps or until you get bored, then build another one and repeat as necessary.

This is fine if your ideal layout is one in which you spend a lot of time building cool scenery and/or detailing your trains and you just want to watch them go.

However, if you see yourself evolving as a model railroader, you have created a dead end. As Selector and others have pointed out, you have little opportunity to service industries or anything else. In other words, you have a yard that can do nothing but operationally pointless switching cars around, but no real destinations or purpose for being that way.

Again this is not an issue if you won't tire of watching your train run laps. Some people never do.

My suggestion would be to reduce the size of the yard and use the space to add in industries, possibly an exchange track, and possibly a nod toward staging. I'd also spend less space running the train in nested loops 4" from the one next to it. Watching a train travel concentric loops doesn't add more interest, it only adds more track while limiting everything else.

If you don't see the need for staging see my article "What is staging and why do I need it?"

You have plenty of space to build a nice layout. Check out some of the designs from a 4 x 8 Design Contest I hosted. I think you'll see that you have the space to accomplish a lot more than you have--and I'm speaking of designing a layout that will grow with you, not one that you will out grow before you start the scenery.
 
mbrunne said:
Excellent feedback! Exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks.

To answer some questions: the location is small town in west central Ohio. The industry is grain, hence "coop" (as in grain cooperative) south of the yard and north of the tunnel. I've got a grain elevator and milling & feed store shown. 1940s to early 50s

The town will have a very small B&O type station (Laser Kit "Springfield Station") south of the cross-over. I plan to run primarily B&O and C&O, and some smaller passenger cars...


...I also reworked the switching at the coop. I think it's more logical now.

Let me know what you think. And thanks again.
Click to expand...

The plan is a good one, for someone who hasn't done anything like this before. All the advice given so far is excellent. The construction of the layout as drawn will also allow for a "quick" reward after you start. That is by laying the mainlines first you can then start running trains, which is the reward!

The only suggestions that I have, (and I suggest this to anyone trying to design a railroad,) is to develop for yourself a written concept of the railroad. Thinking about where it goes, and from where it comes. What other RR's it gets traffic from, or sends traffic to. What industries does it serve, and how often. You have already done this in your mind, but unless you write them down I can guarantee that you'll forget them. This doesn't have to be a "formal" list, just ideas that you jot down.

Now, I bet you're saying, "Good grief! That's too much just to plan a layout! Its too complicated!" Well no, not really its not. If you re-read all of your posts, you've already done 99% of it. The important thing is to save what you've already written, and refer back to it.

One of the members here, Spacemouse, (also known as Chip), has a really nice beginners guide that explains it quite well. http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/Beginner/BeginnersGuide01.html
It makes for very good reading!
 
I just realized that the space I have is similar to yours. I have 8' by 10' but can't use the middle. I have the advantage of running much smaller steam from the 1890's so I can get away with 18" curves. It could easily be reduced to your space.

RockRidgeTrainCityII-2a.jpg
 
Last

Okay gents,

Part of this give & take forces me to make decisions, which is what I wanted.

I reduced my yard size and increased the size of my farmer's co-op. Good advice. Thanks.

Spacemouse, I like your 8x10. I realize I could increase my operation if I replaced my cockpit with a couple of pop ups, but I'm not comfortable doing that. I'll be pushing my skills with a cockpit let alone popups.

Thinking through this I'll probably break 60% scenery & structures; 40% operation.

I still may decrease/eliminate my tunnel to give myself more industry space.

View attachment 10941

That's it for now. And how do I insert an image on this thing so you don't have to click on a link?:confused:

Thank for your input.
 
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