How long were you stuck in planning? Looking for advice


SNE

SNE

Member
I've been without a layout for 5-6 years,. It's not due to space or lack of reasonable funds, but stuck in planning!! I've been fortunate enough to operate on a fantastic basement empire double deck ho scale layout once a month, that's helped me realize what I like/want.
Why have I been stuck? Here's a few reasons. And a crash course on my givens and druthers...

I'm a point to point operations guy, no exceptions.

My favorite part is mainline operations, with signal systems, meets at passing sidings, point to point. Trains moving with a real purpose using car cards or a timetable.

I enjoy the feeling of really going somewhere.

. I also enjoy proto industrial switching operations, but complex switching puzzles annoy me!

I love ho scale, but have only modeled in n scale for longer mainline runs. So I guess I have to compromise and stay with n scale. I can get my ho scale fix once a month at the ops session.

The roads I've been stuck on is the csx Boston line, modern day well a few years ago to get the boston yard in there.
I've also been lured and fantasized by the never completed southern New England, that I grew up playing on the old roadbed.
I would like to model a few key scenes that would be amazing if ever completed. BUT there's to many what ifs, and I don't know if I could do it justice. So guess the csx boston line it is. I'm also open to other roads I'm not familiar with such as the bnsf.

Operators: mainly myself for a quick run during the week and a weekly session with my 15 year old son.

I want to "loosely represent" the Boston line, I'm mainly into ops, and interchanging with other roads like the P & W and a few others. ( no passenger trains)specific structures are not important to me.

My given space....it's a finished bedroom ugh 6' x 10'-10". AND the ceiling starts angling at 4' up. Here's a pic:
24d2060f0a605c512600213144defd23.jpg


Im not afraid of constructing a helix, I've successfully built one before for my previous layout (1' x 8' double deck switching layout) however the angled ceiling will really hinder a second deck against the wall.

Given the small space I'm planning on narrow shelves 8" for more aisle width. I've experienced narrow aisles and they are awful!! I know it won't be good for scenery but I'm an ops first guy.

I've come up with a few plans, with helixs but afraid it's so much that I'll never complete it.

I own every kalmbach published book. Lol!!
I've read them all, and have scoured the web for the past 5 years. I'm not sure if I should take the plunge and possibly never complete the big layout, or should I some how compromise and go with a smaller layout that would contain almost everything that I want? (Hog central maybe?)
I've contemplated hiring a pro, like Byron Henderson or even Lance Mindheim, but it's hard to justify that cost to my wife.

Any tips or advice? Or Should I just find another hobby?! Lol!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You're talking about a space roughly 6 x 10 feet. Even in N, representing the Boston line is going to be a challenge. In addition, you're talking about some fairly creative carpentry to do a double deck with helix layout (and in a 6 x 10 space). Plus you're talking about being (realistically) concerned that you'll never finish something like that if you start it -- I don't know where you're at about staying in that home, among other things.

I would do some serious rethinking of what you want from the hobby. My own experience is that I never could be very long without some sort of layout, even an 8-inch by 7-foot plank in a walk-in closet at one point. Your interest may not be in layout building. Or you may need to outgrow the idea that a layout is something that Tony Koester or Lance Mindheim says it should be. I wouldn't pay Lance a penny, at least for my preferences -- he says exactly what you should have on his blog, but I'm not enjoying the hobby the way Lance tells me to.

I would go back to something that reasonably fits in the room -- the Red Oak MR project layout is roughly what will actually fit, when you consider the need for access on three sides. I would start from there and see how you can scale down your expectations to what you can actually accomplish with the space, time, resources, and skills you have. But there are certainly guys who go a lifetime "planning".
 
Thanks jwb, very insightful and very true. A reality check is exactly what I need.
I've been looking at the Appalachian central a lot.. I also found an operations plan for it as well, and that really opened my eyes to it. I will also take a look at the red oak. The house we have now I will die in... Lol! In the next ten years once my son is in his early 20's I'll have access to the entire basement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I looked up the Appalachian Central, and it's roughly 6' x 7' in N, with access needed on all sides. You have a 6' x 10' room, so you basically wouldn't be able to access 3 sides of the layout -- I don't see any possibilities there. You're either looking at around the wall at a height no higher than 48" and the ceiling sloping in right away, or using that compromised space for access aisles on two sides of a layout sticking out from the center of the far wall. Remember that you need 24-30" for access aisles at minimum, so the space you have in the middle of the room is a squeeze -- the Red Oak layout is 3 feet wide; if you put it lengthwise in the middle of the room, you have only 18" on either side of the layout. So even there you've got a problem. You would also need 24 inches or so past the door into the room, so in the middle of the room, your available space is roughly 2 feet by 7 feet, depending on how big you are.

You might be able to expand from the center peninsula onto shelves on the walls at the far end of the room, but don't expect a lot of operational advantage, since those shelves would be 2 feet long at best. And you've got to allow for at least two people in the room using the access spaces.

So if you want to do something with that space, you need to start scoping things realistically.
 
You may just need to let go of the specific area to model. If you only have another ~10 years to have a basement, you can make this layout "temporary" or make it modular so that you can incorporate it into a future larger layout. With the space you have, you can go around three sides of the room with industries on either side that feed each other. Then, your ops session can be you sitting in the middle running everything. Or two people in the center isle and each runs one side of the layout. I like the idea of two people as it requires communication about what train has what goods and what goods are needed next. You can even do a double main line to make it that much harder.

It sounds like you want the layout to fulfill a dream, and that is why you're stuck in the planning. Once you fully realize what is possible and what you'll be satisfied with, you'll move right along just fine. My two cents: no layout ever needs to be your final one. Don't think you'll die with this layout as you will the house; they're much less permanent than that.
 
Thanks guys!! I like how your being blunt and straight forward JWB!! The room is actually 10'-10" x 20', so I can (permission granted)protrude outside the 6' in width a little bit making the AC or red oak doable seeing as it's not permanent and not fully blocking the room. So those are 2 options that I'm liking.

Bklynman01:
The AC theme is outside my locale of choice, same with coal!!
I'm going to be more open to ideas moving forward. Nothing is set in stone yet. I'm even thinking of a small shelf switching layout like jwb said. Just to get started, At this point anything is better than what I have now. Man I'm all over the place!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
When I was a kid, I bought the Rivarossi 2-8-8-2 with hopes of using it. But after my kids gave me time to build again, I realized that I have to work within the limits of what I have.

One thing that helped me recognize this was John Allen's first layout. His first layout was small, had tight curves and used small engines. He also integrated it into his larger layout.

G+D_1.jpg


So I've designed my layout as simply the track encompassing two stations with siding at each. I'm also very minimal in terms of electronic components to focus on trackage and building the layout (use ground throws and very simple hand operated turntable). I've been fortunate to find relatively small engines for the railroad I model (Reading) and don't expect to have much rolling stock or run long trains.

one ideal I came across that can save a lot of space is a vertical staging yard. But it can be tedious to maintain. (I'll find out)

DSC05110_zpsnl7ft8fn.png
 
as far as the planning goes, i have a notebook full of ideas that all had good and bad things. the best thing i did was put up the benchwork, knowing the space i had available, and just started laying track. think you can find full size print and cut track patterns you can lay down. makes it easier to decide if 8 inch shelves will work or not. thats alot of room for n scale.
 
Great responses guys thank you! You really got my brain going!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
My longest stuck period was the longest planning evening of my life. I think it was a whole hour longer than the last time. Killed me. :cool:
 
I had to wait almost 15 years between my last layout, and the one I have now. I spent that 15 years planning, what I know, is my last layout. I still have dozens of hand drawings of concepts I went through, before I finally settled on the design I'm building. One thing that helped toward the end of planning was a CAD program. Making changes on it was much easier than using paper and pencil. What would take hours before, just took minutes.

I'm not saying that you should use one, (a CAD program), that choice is up to you. But I've always felt that a layout is a personal expression of it's owner, and as such, NO commercial plan published in a book or magazine is going to fit exactly what I want. I believe that is one reason why you seem stuck. You've found a couple of plans that you like, but neither fulfills want you really want.

I would take the "pieces parts" that you like, from as many plans as you like, and put them together into a plan that makes sense to you. It may seem that I'm telling you to delay even more, but this will allow you to get whats best for you, and not whats best for someone else.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cjcrescent said:
I had to wait almost 15 years between my last layout, and the one I have now. I spent that 15 years planning, what I know, is my last layout. I still have dozens of hand drawings of concepts I went through, before I finally settled on the design I'm building. One thing that helped toward the end of planning was a CAD program. Making changes on it was much easier than using paper and pencil. What would take hours before, just took minutes.

I'm not saying that you should use one, (a CAD program), that choice is up to you. But I've always felt that a layout is a personal expression of it's owner, and as such, NO commercial plan published in a book or magazine is going to fit exactly what I want. I believe that is one reason why you seem stuck. You've found a couple of plans that you like, but neither fulfills want you really want.

I would take the "pieces parts" that you like, from as many plans as you like, and put them together into a plan that makes sense to you. It may seem that I'm telling you to delay even more, but this will allow you to get whats best for you, and not whats best for someone else.
Click to expand...

What he said! :cool:
 
^ I 3rd that. A few published plans are actually fully thought out for operations. I start with what I consider the layouts minimum facilities to make me happy. For me that is yard and industries. I built a section that contains those features, added a branchline and a trolley line for variety. Then I add staging to complete the mainline operations. There is space left in the room to extend the branchline if I ever get that far. I would recommend building sections or at least have a track for future expansion. Sometimes you end up changing things. I ended up using my two track 'yard' as a large industry track and a team/ storage track.
 
Thanks for all the responses everyone!! I've done a lot of thinking and re-evaluating of what "I" really want to do. A lot of points you guys have made really hit home.
With all the plans I've come up with and all the layouts based on operations I've looked at, the reason why I can't just go with one is because I've realized it's not where my heart is. What I always keep coming back to is a section of the southern New England where I grew up. Between Palmer ma, and fiskdale ma. To see/create what could have been in a miniature world I can immerse myself into. To create the key scenes with stunning expansive scenery I believe would make me the happiest. I'm going out of my comfort zone and going to steam to make it more believable. I'm going with the year 1942, late November or Christmas time, to be able to do my favorite scenery. My plan is to make modules. Modules that I can connect and operate and eventually move them into the basement. My first module will be the town of fiskdale where a branch line would hop across the quinebaug river to a mill, depot, and small passenger station. Here's an aerial, you can see the road bed which is now a power line path, or quad trail. To the left of the ball field is the mill. I would assume a depot and small passenger station would be right near it as well as a turntable.

1febdd3992f85a885d14a2526b218971.jpg


I'm think of an L shaped module (think 2 hollow core doors)to get the main line across the river, the junction and enough scenery to model it convincingly so if someone from the area saw it, they'd recognize it instantly. This will be a lengthy process, but it's what I really want, so I'll stay motivated!

The steam era is completely new to me, I have to do a lot of researching on steam era operations, rolling stock, how and why on everything!!!

To get the ball rolling I plan on doing a small 30" x 48" (bigger radius curves for steam)test layout. A Simple oval with heavy scenery on one side to practice a few construction techniques. The other side featuring the small flat downtown area of brim field with a station and freight house.
I want practice using cookie cutter style scenery with plaster cloth versus blue/pink foam. The town will force me to build structures ( my weakness). This first test layout can be accomplished in a short amount of time and will give me the confidence to continue. I'll post up a track plan soon. Thanks for everyone's helpful input. What do you guys think of my plan?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
A point to point is exactly what I have set in the transition era (1957). I had a plan of what I wanted to do, but not a track plan. Although I have a lot more room than you have, operation is exactly what I wanted. The layout was built for switching.

Alan has built an excellent switching layout in not a lot of space. http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/...35146-Building-the-Andersley-Western-Railroad

I personally really enjoy switching. I can run a train continuously by using hidden staging, but it bores me after a while. I have a number of town on my layout, but each town had a switching problem built into it.

Think about the industries you may have on your layout. When I built mine, I wanted to have industries interact with other industries within my layout. Shipments within the confines of the layout as well as having trains haul freight to points beyond the layout. I do have a yard and engine facilities at each end of the layout, and after a local freight switches out industries on the layout, cars are taken to one of the two yards and made into an outbound train which leaves the yard going onto hidden staging tracks. These will become inbound freight trains.

I like your idea, now all that need to be done is to come up with the idea you are searching for and get it built.
 
Montanan has really good points-- and to answer your original question, I spent about 3 hours planning my layout but then felt free to change it as it was constructed.

My approach was to start with the industries I wanted to serve then build the track around them.

Whatever you decide, it is all fun!
 
It took me about a month
I started planning with a software and 11 plans later, I was finally satisfied
But even though I was satisfied, I still managed to do 2 modification already

GL
 
Hawkesburytrain said:
It took me about a month
I started planning with a software and 11 plans later, I was finally satisfied
But even though I was satisfied, I still managed to do 2 modification already

GL
Click to expand...

GL,

Your two modifications perfectly illustrate one thing about layout plans that I've tried to get across to my clients for years. Its a plan, and not a blueprint.

If you want/need to make changes to the layout, do so.
 
SNE, I think what you have in that aerial view is part of the Grand Trunk Providence branch. Earthwork was done for this railroad in the early 20th century, but the railroad president was lost on the Titanic, and then WWI intervened and afterward, it was clear that building major new railroads wouldn't be profitable, so the work was abandoned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_New_England_Railway
 
You must log in or register to reply here.



Back
Top