GRADE question


NC&StL

NC&StL

Member
I have tried to get a handle on this but I will instead go to the group for an answer. If the track is raised 2 inches in a three foot long run, is that a 5 % grade or a .05 % grade , or what? That would transfer to 14.5 feet in a distance of 261 "real" feet in 1:1. (I think!)
 
That means it will take more than 6 feet of trackage to raise, and then lower the track for an under pass in my city. Back to the drawing board. Wouldn't be such a big deal, but I gave Walters a lot of money for that neat underpass kit. :D
 
You can always raise one and lower the other to achieve the necessary clearance. Not as easy, but workable. A nominal grade of 2% in HO is a 1" rise every 4'.

Willie
 
NC&StL said:
That means it will take more than 6 feet of trackage to raise, and then lower the track for an under pass in my city. Back to the drawing board. Wouldn't be such a big deal, but I gave Walters a lot of money for that neat underpass kit. :D
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What are you trying to do?
 
Bob:

On my Milwaukee Northern Railroad I have a grade from the first level to the second, a interchange, that rises approximately 4.5 inches in approximately 18 feet. I run short trains so the grade is a problem and it's concealed by rock formations and plantings. I run short trains since my layout isn't large, but a light switcher may spin its wheels puling a five or six car train, while an ALCO, blowing smoke can pull twelve, heavy ore cars up the grade.

SOO Bandit #2.JPG

The grade is above the SOO Bandit. It doesn't appear to be much of a grade, but is...!

Happy pushing.

Greg
 
There is not an easy way to make this happen, so it looks like there will be a grade level crossing in my little town. No biggie, I just wanted to use that underpass kit. We have two of those in my "real" city, and I thought it would be neat. THANKS EVERYONE.
 
Wait ---

If its an underpass for a grade crossing -- that would normally mean that the street passes under the railroad -- so steep grades on a street are not a problem.
 
Red Oak & Western said:
Wait ---

If its an underpass for a grade crossing -- that would normally mean that the street passes under the railroad -- so steep grades on a street are not a problem.
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Prototypically, streets don't get as much clearance as another rail line. Streets are usually (now) 16', about 2.250", whereas a railroad usually gets 22' or 3". These are approximations, check elsewhere for your particular RR's clearances.

Willie
 
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cajon said:
Wasn't the Saluda grade around 5%? But the narrow gauge Uintah Ry had a place w/ 7.5% grades AND 65 degree curves!
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Over the years, there have been several grades higher than 3% on US roads, but they are exceptions, and always had helper districts built around them. There would have been steam locos, or diesels, whose job was to either brake down the grade as assistants, or to shove/pull on those grades for consists needing to climb them.

The industry standards have changed over the years. Way back in the 1838 time-frame, the Cumberland & Wheeling railway ploughed their right of way through some tough terrain, but they managed to keep it down to 2.2%. When the Baltimore & Ohio went looking for approval and federal grant money, Congress insisted the line adopt the maximum gradient of 2.2% in deference to the successful Cumberland & Wheeling, and thereafter declared that the "standard grade" in the USA was to be no more than 2.2%.

In some cases, 2.2% also became the 'ruling grade' in a district. At that time, a ruling grade was the steepest grade a typical consist on the timetable could manage with typical assigned power, often a single 2-8-2. Anything else required a helper engine, or the consist was split into two sections, or the grade was deemed too steep for typical power and was NOT the ruling grade after all...it needed a helper district. The new ruling grade would have become a lesser one over which that single Mike could drag its trailing tonnage unassisted.

That was during steam days and the early transition era. Now, with distributed power, several units can be place throughout the consist, and they can be cut in and out as their tractive effort is needed. Nobody needs to man them; they can be controlled remotely by the crew in the cab. This makes the ruling grade the steepest one in any district, which is what most people assume it means. And these days, they would be correct.
 
Grades may be grades, but model trains aren't the same as actual trains, particularly when it comes to tractive effort, wheel slip/friction, etc. Woodland Scenics sells 4% styrafoam grade materials, for model railroads. A number of years ago, modelers weren't always concerned about strickley limiting their grades to 2%, which on an actual Class 1 mainline railroad, would be considered a fairly difficult for a train of typical length, with a normal loco consist, regardless of whether helpers/distributed power were used or not.

For most model railroads, a typical length freight train isn't 60 loads, with the appropriate amount of weight added to represent the load, nor the distances like in a real world. Grades of 3-5% were some times the norm, as it meant that helpers on the model railroad would really be required to move the train of 15 cars up to the next locale. And if it meant that you could add a model feature that you desired (viaduct, trestle, bridge, etc), which would add scenic interest to your layout, a 3-5% grade might just be the result. Its your railroad after all-model railroading is/was supposed to be done for fun. I assume, if Woodland Scenics didn't think there was a demand for 4% grade sytrafoam material, they wouldn't make it, as there wouldn't be any money in it for them.

TGV lines in Europe when they were first built, were straight, regardless of the terrain. Meant some very long tunnels, or steeper grades than desired, as what mattered was travel time between end points, not other stuff.

Good luck!
 
I have a 6% grade on my layout. It is on an home made foam riser
And a sharp curve. 'Effective grade ' (after those are multiplied) is some insane number. Trying to get this to operate reliably is still a work in progress. I do need to emphasize that this is a branchline, not a recommended practice.

The Western Maryland railway operated a 6% mainline grade and the first move after the merger was to abandon that section of mainline. Railfans have mighty impressive photos of many locomotives lined up to push a train over the grade. I believe it was up to 10 locomotives to push a 100 car train.



Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
D&J RailRoad said:
That is correct. A very steep grade that you probably won't find on any US railroads.
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Change "any" to "many" & that statement is true but there are/were a few RRs w/4-5 % grades. And the narrow Gauge Uintah Ry had 7.5% grades + 65-degree curves. And they ran two 2-6-6-2 steamers on that!
 
Madison Hill in Indiana was a steep grade. As I recall, it was a branch of the PRR, and used special SD9s that had weight added for traction and braking purposes. There used to be a steam loco that was used on the line in the Indianapolis Children's Museum.
 
We must remember and I really hate to be the one butt...these are NOT the real thing and CAN do things the "real" ones cannot with little or no difficulties. 4%+ is VERY doable in HO! The most important thing is TRANSITION. Leave yourself room to have a flat level stretch of track at least two cars long between curve and grade.

It's YOUR road, build what YOU want to see!
 
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