First steps


moogie

New Member
After reading through numerous pages on this forum and getting lots of ideas, I started tonight to set out a switching yard for my new layout (going in the morning to get the timber)
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the room is 12' x 12' so should be able to get a fair bit of running track, might try a second deck if i can fit it in. (the green carpet is just to save my old knee's.)

Here is a couple of photo's of it, would it pass for a Canadian yard?

The main line is running round the outside with a storage siding beside it.
The small branch of turnouts in the corner are for cabooses Etc.



The line closest to you is where the train will be parked to be broken up with the main sidings in the back ground.



The small branch to the right is for loco parking.



Sorry about the quality of the photos, they were taken with my phone.

Noel
 
Doesn't look like any yard I've ever seen. You might try using the aerial imagery at Bing Maps or Google maps and looking at some real yards.

Steve S
 
Looks more like parking than yard space TBH, but depending on what kind of operation you're doing, it could work. Unless you have loads of destinations, however, I suspect a lot of them will end up as storage.
 
Hi Noel.

Is this laid out on the floor in your 12x12 foot shed? What is it that we see a bit up the wall on the right and the left images - you don't have a sloping ceiling in this room, do you?

Are you still doing Canadian Pacific somewhere in the 1970s in H0, or is this N scale?

As for the yard itself - it depends on what you are going to be using this for.

If your primary purpose for this yard is storage of cars and short trains (i.e. a staging area), this will work. Would probably work better with longer double ended tracks for passive staging.

It doesn't look a lot like most yards - unless you happen to be modeling a very cramped urban yard (say in New York/Brooklyn or something like that), where tracks had to be shoehorned in every which way.

I would suggest starting by explaining what the yard is going to be used for and how it fits into your overall concept idea for the layout.

What aspects of the CP and what kind of locations are you inspired by?

Smile,
Stein
 
The way your tracks are configred looks more like a subway car storage yard. If you brought the mainline tracks inside the yard tracks, you could have a riverside yard similar to anyone of the pre Penn Central/Conrail harborside operations. Stub yard tracks that end in either a car float or wharehouse, with a river and city scape as your background.

Joe:)
 
Thanks for your reply's, sorry i have not got back to you's sooner, got tied up with work.
To answer some questions-

I have it set out on the floor of the shed just to get an idea of the size and shape of bench work i need to build.

The shed is 12 x 12 and has a sloping roof which means my bench work will only be 24" off the floor, not ideal, but it is all i have.

The era i have picked is the 70's - mid 80's and it is HO.

Type of yard -
Im going to need a bit of help here. I think it is a Classification yard i want. It will be where goods trains are split up and then rebuilt to go to various destinations, (sorry if im not calling things by their correct name, struggling a bit to understand all the terms used in American/Canadian Railways )

My main interest is the goods side of the railway, so lots of grain hoppers, container traffic etc., My railway wont be based on any place in particular just would like it to have a feel of the great lakes region. Does this make any sense to you's ?

Spent some time tonight redesigning the yard, does this look any better? if not could any one show me any pictures of model yards to see where i am going wrong.

Thanks,
Noel.





 
moogie,

have a look at these links for classification yard modelling:

http://www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html

http://www.layoutvision.com/id20.html


I think those links are exactely what your looking for.

Paul


After reading through these web sites and the use of the scarm software i have eventually came to a design that i am happy with, but i would still like your thoughts on it. It is based on the track plan in the ten Commandments site. It seems to fit my space quite well.
Would you have a look at the picture below and see if i have got the correct end if the stick, (as in all the correct parts of a yard that is needed in my plan)
Thanks,
Noel.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/goodsyard3d.jpg/
 
moogie,

mostly looks good. Only a few points.

The caboose track needs to be accessible from both ends, so maybe a loop rather than spur.

The yard lead (headshunt in UK and Ireland) needs to be long enough to put a whole train worth of wagons out in one 'pull'. So it needs to be the same length as the arrival/ departure track that holds at goods train, sans loco.

Those are the two most important.

Other comments, the yard can be double ended rather than the single end one on the 10 commandments site. So you could use the pervious yard but with a yard lead/headshunt added, to both ends I guess.

PaulB
 
PaulB,
in another thread you had suggested what type of industries that a member could have on his layout, coal mine, coke plant etc,.
Would you have any ideas for a CP rail layout in and around the Ontario area ?
I know (Well it think) that area of Canada produces a lot of grain and some logging, what else ? Also what does a Canadian grain plant/ mill look like?

Sorry for my ignorance on Canadian industries, but for an outsider its a fairly steep learning curve. Only a month ago i couldn't have even told you what a switcher was !! :confused:

As always, thanks for any help/ advise given.
Noel.
 
Moogie,

here's some more links about operation:

first a German fellow who likes a similar prototype to you:

http://www.westportterminal.de/


And a neat bit of freeware that helps you figure out industries and stuff:

http://easy-model-railroad-inventory.rclsoftware.com/index.htm


Ontario would have a bit of heavy industry. There is wheat in Canada but minerals are very important to the economy. Many of the US steel mills got their iron ore from Canada. Today there seems to be more intergrated steel mills in Canada than America.

I think you could add whatever took your fancy to a layout based in Ontario. Have a look through the industry list and figure out which ones interact.

Let us know how you go with it.

Paul
 
After reading through these web sites and the use of the scarm software i have eventually came to a design that i am happy with,
That is a pretty nice yard, but my question through this entire thread is why do you want such a massive yard? Nine classification tracks is more than our club's 24'x32' layout has and it serves 7 other towns on the layout. Is the 12'x12' room just for this yard and it is connected to a really massive layout somewhere?
 
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That is a pretty nice yard, but my question through this entire thread is why do you want such a massive yard? Nine classification tracks is more than our club's 24'x32' layout has and it serves 7 other towns on the layout. Is the 12'x12' room just for this yard and it is connected to a really massive layout somewhere?

If only it was part of a bigger layout, :( but sadly 12' x 12' is all the space i have to play with.
I don't really know why i made it so big, i just kept adding track, but wouldn't it look good with all those roads full of cars! What number of roads do you think would be needed for the size of layout i have? Bearing in mind that i will need some storage sidings.
The layout will be freight only, no passenger trains at all. There will be several industries which the yard will be supplying, nothing set in stone yet, but the cars i have are grain hoppers, container well cars, tankers, gondolas and various box cars.
I noticed there was paper mills in the Ontario area. What type of car would be used to transport the large rolls of paper? Another industry i noticed was the steel works, they were being supplied with gravel and brick, what would these have been used for and what cars used to transport them? Gravel in a open hopper?

Thanks for the input. I still have a lot to learn, so sorry about all the questions,
Noel.
 
Classification yards are located at the ends divisions or sub divisions. So you'd be sorting trains for two mainlines in both directions. The staging/fiddle yard would represent both directions. Most of your industries could be imaginary rather than physical models. You'll need lots of tracks in the staging yard, similar to your second design. Would 11 roads be possible? Maybe more?


I was just thinking.....if you have lots of container flats, why not turn two of the yard tracks into an intermodal yard? Say the two bottom ones and seperate them a little from the other tracks. You'd need a container crane and a pile of containers. Here's were you get free cardboard container piles:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/schatborn/index2.html


Classifications yards would also have a repair in place track (RIP) for minor repairs, any car could be spotted there, a cleaning track for washing out hoppers and box cars, and a team track or two, for local industries to pick up their goods if they don't have their own spur. Again, plenty of choice as to which cars to spot. Even hoppers and tankers can be unloaded on team tracks.

That would give you 4 local yard industries to shunt as well as any deliveries to the loco depo (they need sand and fuel in the diesel age).

For steel traffic, you'd need a whole train of gondolas. This would have scrap metal heading to the mill, and finished steel products (coils, wire, structural steel, rails, etc) headed out to customers. You could have a whole ore train and a whole coal train too. Then there are hoppers for limestone, only a little bit of gravel, acid cars, etc. These might be delivered to the mill as part of one of your local way freights (local or pick up goods train).

The gravel for stell mills is only used to clean the blast furnaces and to 'turn them off' by dumping gravel into the furnace. So little gravel is used compared to the other stuff that it might not be worth worrying about. The bricks, on the other hand, are used in significant numbers. These are special bricks for refractory lining. The hot metal cars, slag cars, blast furnace, basic oxygen furnace (or bessemer convertor or open heath depending on your period), all use a brick lining so they don't melt. This refractory lining has to be replaced regularly. Also clay and sand is used for various moulds. I am assuming there would be a factory somewhere to make the specialised bricks (these aren't house bricks, they need special chemical composition, differing with their application). Boxcars would be used to ship them, I imagine. Otherwise gondolas with tarps. It should be noted that all stuff like this going into a steel mill is dwarfed by the amount of iron ore and coal needed.

Paper mills. These people need pulp wood or wood chips. Wood chips are low density so they usually use special gondolas with very high sides. A few manufacturers offer them. Bulkhead flat cars are used to carry pulp wood. Once again, plenty on the market. Paper is carried away in high roof boxcars. There are special ones for paper, but I think you could use any boxcar really. I'm not sure what paper mills use for fuel. Would the papermill traffic be part of the way freight or would there be dedicated trains? Does anybody know?:confused:

What about the grain hoppers? Could be through traffic on it's way to the city or export? So you need an imaginary farming district in one direction and imaginary grain elevators in the other. Wheat is seasonal, so at harvest time, your yard gets clogged with an enormous number of wheat trains during harvest time. Can any Canadians give us more information on wheat traffic over Canadian rails?
 
I like the intermodal yard idea as well. You have room for it.

Why couldn't he model a nice sized grain elevators? Why the need to model off layout? He should have room on the other walls.
 
I like the intermodal yard idea as well. You have room for it.

Why couldn't he model a nice sized grain elevators? Why the need to model off layout? He should have room on the other walls.


Well, I try to offer the cheapest and easiest suggestions. Backdrop industries are cheap and easy. No everyone likes them though:rolleyes:.

Off table is cheap and easy too, and very flexible. We can change our minds and reorganise our ideas when industries are imaginary off table destinations.

But scale models look much better and are fun to build. With steel mills and concrete plants, one really needs to be keenly interested in modelling industrial structures as they can be quite involved. Grain elevators aren't too hard, nor do they take up too much room. Walthers makes lots of nice structures for all these industries. Here's their grain elevator:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3022

Hmm, seems to be sold out. Could be avaliable somewhere? It only needs 12" x 9" by the looks of it. Walthers has wquite a bit of other grain elevator stuff to go with it.

The team tracks, RIP track and cleaning track don't need much more room than the siding. They are very flexible and almost any car can be spotted there. It terms of structures, they only need a road on each side (for truck access) and maybe a crane for the team tracks, and some junk, cleaning hoses and railroad workers for the other two.

Walthers has a papermill series too. It would get a bit big to do the whole thing. See, a lot of these major industries make good subjects for switching layouts. For mainline layouts, I'd think traffic flow is the main focus so we'd just want the exchange sidings for these big industries. Or have them in staging as off layout destinations. But that is just my opinon.
 
Playing about last night with the Scarm software, trying to work out what i was going to do with the rest of my layout. One of the small industries will probably be used for a grain elevator and i am going to need a bit of help / advise with the Steel works, just couldn't get a design i was happy with. Any ideas?
This is what i have came up with so far. There will be an upper and lower level, but these will only be loops.

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/goodyards.jpg/]
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Also i have been trying to work out a name for the layout. It will be a branch line off the CP Rail network in and around the Sault Ste. Marie area. So far i have two possible names, - "The Rock Sault Line" or "The Sea Sault Line". Think i might go with the second one.

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/yardplan.jpg/]
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Any way, have a look at the plans and feel free to comment.
Noel.
 
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