Do the books help any?

[Iron Horseman]

Ok, I'm understanding much better what you are doing.

But I guess my question is, would a railroad typically send a locomotive by itself down the main to a siding? Or should I try to incorporate another line coming from the yard not connected to the main to service my industries?

No, and no. A locomotive cannot leave the yard limits without becoming a "train". But you do not need another line either. That is the cool part. So the cars for the industries get delivered by a "road" train to the yard. The yard crew makes those cars into a "local" train. A hostler moves a locomotive from the round house and puts it on the front of the train. A local crew is called to take the new train out of the yard to service the industries. It switches the new cars in, moves cars in the industrial area around (like reefers from the ice house to the packing plant and empty stock cars from the stock yard to the clean out track), then gathers cars that are leaving and returns to the yard. An out and back train like this is generally called a "local turn". --Not to be confused with each crew members' job I just described which is also called a "turn".-- Anyway the process is then reversed. A hostler takes the locomotive and puts it back in the roundhouse - or to service. The yard crew breaks up the cars returning from the local into the appropriate tracks for their final destinations. And eventually those cars are made up into another "road" train that is leaving this yard for all points off the layout. Model Railroading operation at it finest.

 

[flatbedcowboy]

AWESOME! That answers that pretty much exactly!! And gives a great visual reference to! Easy: Road loco, yard switcher, and local.

So next question in my classification yard or close to it; which support industries are typical? I know an ice house is one, grain towers another, maybe a rail-to-road warehouse, what are others?

 

[Iron Horseman]

So next question in my classification yard or close to it; which support industries are typical? I know an ice house is one, grain towers another, maybe a rail-to-road warehouse, what are others?

A rail to road warehouse (or vice-verse) is simply called a freight station. A track where cargo is moved directly from a box car onto wagons (or trucks in this case) is called a "team track".

But don't get to caught up with thinking you have to have the support industries on the layout. That is the other wonder of model railroading, one can pretend ANY industry is just beyond the boundaries of the layout. And even better, that means there needs to be a train to take it there.

But, A packing plant needs lots of things besides stock cars. Power! They were often coal powered so you will need hoppers in, or with oil power tanks in. Hoppers of waste out. Clean reefers in and full ones out. Box cars with butcher paper, boxes, trays, meat pins, cleaning supplies etc, etc in. Box cars with hides to the tannery out. Even an occasional flat car or gondola with new heavy equipment in.

Stock yards need lots of feed in (box cars, covered hoppers), straw & hay (box or flat), fencing supplies, equipment like tractors, cement for construction projects, etc.

 

[Fazby]

To add to this: Aisle-side industries. The spur is at the edge of the layout with the industry implied being where you are standing. No real estate taken up; nothing to build! Selective compression at a new level.

Got this from an issue of MR. Don't ask which one.

 

[Espeefan]

Is this the whole track plan? If so, I really don't see much for the trains to do. Do you really need two turntables? This is going to dominate the layout along with being a very large "blob". Look that up in Armstrong's book. You don't seem to have enough room for an engine facility that size, and you seem to have left out some things a facility like this would have, such as a coaling tower or oil tanks, ash pit and other ancillary buildings.

If your sole purpose is to display a large steam roster and make up long trains that don't have any place to go, then this is pretty good. If you want to operate realistically, I'd suggest going back to the drawing board. You could still have an engine facility, but a smaller one. Take a look at the real estate this one chews up:



That is a two stall roundhouse, some garden tracks and a 75 ft turntable in HO scale. Pretty big isn't it?

It's your railroad and I don't mean to belittle your efforts but you're looking at significant cost here and if you build it and don't like it, that's a lot of lost time and effort. if you have more of the plan, let's see it.

 

[flatbedcowboy]

Hello there!

Iron Horseman, I guess I was actually meaning trackside buildings for my yard. Like which industries or buildings would be typically found in classification yards if any.

Espeefan, I get what your saying. This is really my first sketch of the yard I want, and hopefully I will be able to reduce the wasted space some. I do plan on keeping both roundhouses (maybe smaller ones) but the idea of one being my loco service terminal and the other as my repair yard is something I really like (it connects my freelance John Deere rolling stock to the real world).

At the top of the sketch where the little yard ends there will be an interchange with a prototype that I have the benchwork for already. Its a UP line that runs mainlines a few feet to the other wall and goes behind a backdrop to a staging yard. In front of the back drop is the Boise Valley Railroad shortline (it really exists) that runs to my hometown. Track work is slowly started there.

At the bottom of the sketch where it curves to the right, that where I am doing a sale yard, meat packing plant, and tractor factory. For now I think that its going to an island in the middle of the room where it will have a super long run but that's about as far as I have gotten.

The room Im trying to fill is 20x25 feet

 

[logandsawman]

I looked through the thread and didn't see what your era is, but check out this fantastic video to get a bunch of great ideas, shows a lot of the industry and track, actual footage.

I know your's isn't a hump yard, but much of this footage is the railroad-dependant industry: You can fast forward through to the interesting parts

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?36118-1942-Freight-Operations

 

[Iron Horseman]

Got this from an issue of MR. Don't ask which one.

I believe that was September 2005.

But back to the plan. What is the purpose of the "loop" of track around the roundhouse?

 

[flatbedcowboy]

I believe that was September 2005.

But back to the plan. What is the purpose of the "loop" of track around the roundhouse?

Around the bigger roundhouse? A couple reasons I guess, like if I ended up not doing the second roundhouse I could cut it off the plan and still have a loop for continuous running. Also that way trains could enter and exit the yard at either side and head in either direction, like if it wanted to exit the right side of the yard and head to the bottom of the layout or enter from the top. And last I think it would look cool running a long consist passed my service terminal.

 

[flatbedcowboy]

I looked through the thread and didn't see what your era is,

I have several F units and some transition diesels, but mostly older rolling stock so I am thinking 1950 is a good target. But I am a little limited because of the stock available in the John Deere color scheme I may have to advance it a little.

 

[logandsawman]

For John Deere color scheme are you doing flatbeds with tractors as well as box cars?

 

[flatbedcowboy]

Yea! Athearn used to make ready to roll models and sets, which I have several of. Items ranged from a Challenger and Big Boy to little yard locos and cranes, flatcars, boxcars, wellcars. pretty much anything that runs on rail. Most engines are DCC ready. I even have bombardier cars in John Deere colors. Athearn made sets to which I have almost all of them. I think I am only missing 4 sets, and a few of the individual items like boxcars and locomotives. After I get home tonight Ill post up some pictures of some or a quick ebay search of John Deere Trains will give you a good idea.

 

[flatbedcowboy]

HA I think I found what I am looking for!

On the Model Railroader website track plan data base the "Kettle Valley" layout matches what I want almost exactly! http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database?size=100-300+sq.+ft.&scale=ho+scale&type=&q=

Now only if I could figure out how to download it. My subscription has been expired for a while....

 

[goscrewyourselves]

Here's an idea - bring the main picture up and take a screen shot of it. Then take screen shots of the details. No down load required

 

[GNMT76]

I wholly concur with Burlington Bob that John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" is indeed a helpful and indispensable tome for those wishing to delve into both the basics and the more technical details of (realistic) layout planning. Some of the topics Armstrong covered were over my head, but then again, I'm not an engineer as he was. Read it and learn.

To that book, I would add Armstrong's "The Model Railroad Track Plan Book," a bit easier to follow and replete with simple, hand-drawn schematics to reinforce the text. As in the earlier book, the material is presented from the standpoint of what is realistic - and doable on the table or in the basement of a modeler - with the goal of replicating how the prototype railroads of the world are built and run.

Both of these excellent books provide a solid foundation upon which to create your own railroad based on real-world principles and methods, as well as, perhaps, the inspiration to notch it up a bit and stretch one's creative juices and thought processes while having fun.

I found that trying to understand some of the more esoteric concepts of track planning and layout design presented by Armstrong - albeit from a professional engineer's desk - was not only enlightening, but at times fun! There's that word again!

 

[flatbedcowboy]

This is the track plan I think Im going to try and follow. I don't think that I want quite as large of a mountain dominating my layout, but extending my mainline I think will definitely help. Seems like a good mix of switching and long continuous runs.

 

[flatbedcowboy]

These are the stock yards from Denver Union Stockyards that I am planning on trying to copy, they are pretty big and have several packing plants.

 

[flatbedcowboy]

The black circle is the livestock pavilion that the Denver stock show started in (around 1910).
The blue is the Stock yard offices, hotel, saloon, and bank.
The green are packing plants

But the red I have no idea what they are. They both have catwalks going to them from the center of the yard. Supposedly on the left side between the bottom packing plant and the red circle is where the sheep and hogs were offloaded. There was also a catwalk over the river to the far left but I don't know why. Maybe the red circles are sheep and hog packing plants? Anyone from Denver on here that might know?

 

[logandsawman]

The bottom green circled building is Swift and Company, the red circled building just above it is the Sheep Market, The green circled building above that is The Colorado Packing & Provision Co., and the red circled building on the right was constructed after about 1930,called the Blayney-Murphy Slaughterhouse, or the Blayney-Murphy Building.

The building earlier called The Colorado Packing & Provision Company was changed to Armour and Company between 1931 and 1935.

 

[logandsawman]

Here is a good photo of the Sheep Market:



Here is a good stockyard photo with the double decker unloading chute: This is at the Denver Stockyards




Here is 1921 ATSF bridge, near stockyard--



Here is Colo Packing about 1915, could be part of a layout.