Coal mine animation help?


RW&C

RW&C

N Scale with Stone Tools
As usual, I'm getting way ahead of myself, and trying to set up my coal mine (Walthers New River Mine, cut down to a slightly smaller size) to actually dump coal into hoppers. I figure it'll make an interesting operation for friends/visitors who would get bored just pushing cars around, plus I'm kinda ADD that way myself.

I've toyed with various ideas, but I haven't come up with anything that works decently or is within my capabilities for fabrication. Has anyone else managed this, and if so, how'd you do it? I'm out of ideas on this one.
 
You need to get a book called; "Animation for Modelers". That book had all kinds of stuff about miniature mechanix. I use to have 1, but gave it to a kid that use to do all of that stuff. I'm sure you could find a new or used one from the Book Store here on the forum.
 
There was an article out just recently in MR or RMC mag that was how to load cars with a coal tower. It was really quite cool looking and really loaded the cars based on when they entered the tower and he had it timed to fill the car in the time it took to pass the loader so as prototypical the train never stops to load. I'll look and see if I can find the article for you.

Dave
 
I think the article Dave mentioned was actually written by a member here.

There was a thread somewheres about it, and i cant remember their name, but it looked great.
 
It was in the April 2010 RMC. It isn't timed to load the cars, there is a magnet on the bottom of each car that triggers two reed switches, one to start loading and one to stop. That way the speed isn't as relevant. It just needs to be slow enough that the cars have time to load and the magnets enough time over the switches to open and shut the gate letting the coal into the cars. I think making it work in N scale would be a fun challenge and might require some sort of actual metering device to get the required result.

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Thanks for the input guys. A fun challenge is just what I'm after. :) A capacitor, a resistor, and a relay apparently make a rather nice timer. On to the breadboard...

Larry, I tried looking up the book you suggested and found "realistic animation lighting and sound" on Amazon. Through their very helpful "look inside" feature I found an illustration of a design utilizing an old auger bit, a motor, and some PVC. I hadn't considered a screw drive system. I'll see if my dad will part with any of the rusty auger bits laying around the basement. ;)

The magnet thing is certainly something to keep in mind, especially as a way to defeat a visitor from dumping coal all over the tracks. Thanks for that as well. :)

Does anyone remember how the dumping mechanism worked on that coal tower? I'd like to have a plan B just in case the auger bits prove too precious to hack to bits.
 
So I got lucky with the auger, I've got it in the structure now, and I've got a gearbox from one of those crazy plastic cat balls hooked up (with a more powerful motor of course). After an hour of keeping it spinning while the epoxy dried (don't want it to be crooked), it's ready for a hopper.

The only snag so far is that I had to mount the motor outboard of the structure. It sticks out a good five inches, which I figure I'll hide in the cliff behind the mine. Any ideas on trying to hide the shaft?

I'll get pics up later, hopefully when the hopper and the trough are in.

Edit: Trough is roughed in, needs some refinement but it's in there anyway. Calling it good for the night, pics tomorrow or whenever it's presentable. :rolleyes:
 
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Okay, I've got the hopper in and glued. It'll require a bit of refinement, but my problem now is what to use as coal. Part of me says just buy a bin of it at a hobby shop, but another part of me is a cheap bastard. So I have cat litter soaking in black paint (to see if that works) and I just torched my shoulders putting black plastic sprues through a meat grinder. Anyway, pics.

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Here's the motor I need to hide.

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This is the ground plastic coal. It might be passable for HO or larger, or for someone with more upper body strength, but it's a bit impractical for me.

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I'm thinking you can hide it in a hill or maybe an auxilliary building?
For coal try roofing grit, just look for a building with black shingles and check out the downspouts.
I started a similar project years ago with an auger going thru a plastic pipe, never did finish it tho.
 
My suggestions for hiding the motor: Go with your idea of hiding it in the hill behind the mine. I'd consider making a section of rock face with a shaft coming out of it that you can lift off the layout, sort of like a lift out panel. You can leave the bottom of the shaft open so it will slip down over the motor drive shaft, after all no one should be trying to look up under the scenery. This way you can have a small lift out section to access the motor if you ever need to (and you know some time you will need to) without ripping up terrain.

Considering all the time and money you are investing in attempts at making your own coal, you might just want to buy a few bags from the hobby shop. Sometimes paying that few extra dollars is worth it. I'm sure your shoulders would hurt less.
 
Woodland Scenics run of mine coal. A small tipple like that has no picking tables, it just takes whatever comes down and gets separated. Hoppers would take it from there to a prep-plant where it would be washed, graded and then sent on to market.

I'd like to see you show off that tipple. I am all about tipples, being a coal modeler. Put some pics in the plastic structure thread and maybe a 'how I did it.'
 
Midland Man, glad you like it. :) The design was copied almost exactly from MR, where the author chopped up the HO version for the Turtle Creek Central project layout. I copied his cuts, botched a few things, and stuck it together as best I could. (I figure, it's a coal mine, not a piano... :rolleyes:)

Dameon, the lift out is a great idea. I'll definitely go with that (if only to clean under it... the thing has a way of throwing coal around).

The grading and washing facility is an interesting idea, and another possible client for the railroad. :) Off to do some research...

Well, the nearest hobby store is quite a long ways away (I live in the middle of nowhere), and I found that by sifting the ground plastic I could get rid of my main problem with it: the little tiny bits that stick to everything by static electricity. By pre-cutting the plastic before feeding it into the hopper I reduced arm strain a bit, and luckily I'm young enough that my arms didn't fall off. :D I'll use the little stuff for truck loads and add it to the ballast around the mine. To my surprise it actually looks reasonably decent.

Enough talk, mock up pics. (Keep in mind that several parts aren't glued.)

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I made the open windows by cutting a window or two out of the kit's window strips, cutting and filing it down to where it would just barely squeeze into the hole, then glueing them in place. I think between that and the open doors this thing looks more realistic than it did to start with. The panel lines are cut with a hobby knife, the paint is grey auto primer, and the weathering is self-adhesive weathering powder. (I think it needs more black just to tone it down a bit.)

Pardon my ignorance of coal mining equipment, but... what is this bit? It's chutes under it like it's another filling thing, and the supports are far enough apart for a hopper to get in under it. Some kind of storage? Would this have a track under it?
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And a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kDJ5fHHG9M

All questions/comments/criticism welcome, and thanks to all who have helped so far. Without you guys I'd still be mucking around with solenoids and drinking straws.
 
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That odd bit, the extra building with 3 chutes under it, is for loading coal into trucks.

How did you paint the window frames onto the clear plastic windows? This has been the first kit I've built that had the frames molded onto the plastic. My plan was to simply brush a thin amount of paint into a clean flat surface like a sheet of paper and then gently lay the plastic window down then pick it up.
 
Actually, that's called a slack bin. It can be used to load RR cars or trucks. Slack is about the smallest coal there is. It would have been used in stokers.

There are some great books on the market that explain very simply how a tipple is set up. I recommend King Coal by Stan Cohen and Appalachian Coal Mines and Railroads by Thomas Dixon (of C&O Historical Society fame). I'd also recommend www.appalachianrailroadmodeling.com and www.coalcampusa.com for research.
 
I see I have a lot of reading to do. I'll probably just put a track under it, this one looks a bit high for loading the average truck. Definitely a hard hat area either way, that's a lot of coal dropping a long distance.

I actually didn't paint the window frames. I dumped a bit of black weathering powder on a bit of wood and rubbed the side with the molded frames against them, hoping that the black would transfer to the plastic. It sort of did and sort of didn't, but clearly the overall effect is convincing. ;)
 
I finally got back to work on this thing, and I think it's almost done. I added more gearing to the auger so that it spins at a more reasonable rate, and glued a baffle on one side of the hole to keep it from spewing coal all over the layout. It binds up now and then but mostly seems to work.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p08Jte_dCw
 
For your coal, did you think of using aquarium gravel? The stores in my area have it in different sizes, and it looks like perfect mine run coal, the black gravel of course. For that matter how about using filter charcoal? If thats too big, its soft enough to be able to crush to a smaller size easily.
 
I didn't think of aquarium gravel, but I'll check it out next time I'm at Malwart. It would be nice to find something a bit smaller than the plastic without the static cling issues. :) Thanks! (And I did try busting open a water filter once, but the charcoal bits were mixed in with little yellowish blobs and I couldn't figure out how to separate them.)
 
RW&C said:
... :) Thanks! (And I did try busting open a water filter once, but the charcoal bits were mixed in with little yellowish blobs and I couldn't figure out how to separate them.)
Click to expand...

I was talking about an aquarium charcoal. The charcoal is available separately and are generally close to the gravel. So there is no need to bust open a filter to get some.
 
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