Building the Pinnacle Creek Mining & Timber Co. RR
- Thread starter HOexplorer
- Start date
engineerkyle
Member
looking great
Calendar material.
Railrunner130
Well-Known Member
What technique did you use to get the grass between the tracks? My prototype railroad didn't maintain much ballast and I'd like to replicate that.
Geared Steam
Member
Thanks fellows. I just got back from my LHS and purchased the Railroad Model Craftsman mag that has the photo in it. Nice ad. Jim
Congrats Jim, you've been busy!
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Thanks fellows.
GS, we've missed you.
RR, I will do a tutorial this week on low ballast tracks. Jim
GS, we've missed you.
RR, I will do a tutorial this week on low ballast tracks. Jim
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Thanks Rico much appreciated.
I hope to post all about Ballast later today. Jim
I hope to post all about Ballast later today. Jim
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Here is my take on Ballast.
Some modelers hate it, some don't. It seems to be one of the most necessary evils of our hobby. Me? No problem. Necessary or not I man up and get the job done.
We probably don't know the name of the man who first figured out ballast, but we can easily come to the conclusion it was shortly after the first railroad train and track sunk in the mud somewhere in England. Ballast, of course, supports rails and trains, provides drainage, etc. Seems like this wouldn't work, but by using angular crushed stone that adheres to the stone next to it it does work. You wouldn't use marbles for the job naturally. However when push comes to shove all the reasons for ballast comes down to two things: speed of trains and MONEY.
There a mathematical formulas for the amount of ballast that must be followed to have safe passage of trains at certain speeds. Passenger trains need the best to roll on at over 100 mph. Trains on one of my layouts can get by with somewhat less than "proper" amounts. I typically model trains that run less that 15 mph. I typically model small lumber or mining operations. AND because these are small operations where the bottom line is everything, maybe, just maybe, because I typically model private backwoods operations I typically will model with MONEY being the end all be all to the companies wellbeing. It is always about the MONEY. Typically!
Logging operations cut the trees and basically moved on to the next forest taking everything with them. All the rails, ties, buildings, etc. were loaded up and reused time and again. Cheaper than leaving it all and rebuilding everything. Mining was sort of the same. A bit more permanent because hopefully the mine would last longer, and pay out longer than a patch of forest. A mine also produced more quick MONEY than timber cutting so more Money would be able to put into the mine and its surrounding support system. Thus the 'Company Town' was born. My current Dead Tree layout models one such company town.
So, if I have a mining or lumber operation and MONEY is so important and my trains go slowly and I'm going to move on someday I know I can save money by simply laying track in the dirt. If it rains and the track sinks it is not a really big deal to add logs under the sunken track and get on with the job! I've chosen this type of layout not because I don't like ballasting, but because I simply like the era, setting, simplicity, and use of scenery, so I've come to this style at the end of my modeling days. I've done all the other stuff, yards, towns, cement streets, ballasted track, and I find this current modeling to be just as rewarding if not more so.
RR, asked about ballast, or the lack thereof, and the in between, so here is a short tutorial on the way I do it, and the way it can also be done, using more MONEY of course, with light ballasting.
First, I glue some HO track down on a piece of painted board.
After drying over night I added spray glue, with NO concern for my rails or ties. In most of these photos you can see the products I used for the picture and in there correct order.
Next I pour WS Earth Blend ground cover over everything.
Using only my fingers, NOT A BRUSH, I spread the ground cover in between the ties, inside the rails and out. Reason just fingers is so some material adheres to the ties and track. Let dry over night.
The next day I rewet with spray glue and add assortments of ground covers. Starting to look like my layout now. I didn't add too much in the way of bushes and weeds because we are interest in the interaction between track and basically over grown dirt to keep our rails in place.
So let's pretend we are modeling a wet, rainy type area where 'plants' alone just can't hold our track firmly enough. The ballast would be used. But remember MONEY is an issue, so typically a couple of miners or loggers would shovel what little ballast they had on to the middle of the track. This was hard work, so getting it off the car and onto the track before lunch or what ever was a priority. When they finished we have something like this:
I've showed the ballasted track along with the un-ballasted track to reflect the shoveling of the ballast on to the track. Remember in the first place when un-ballasted track was laid it was simply squished into the ground on a wet day by the loco's weight.
Jim
Some modelers hate it, some don't. It seems to be one of the most necessary evils of our hobby. Me? No problem. Necessary or not I man up and get the job done.
We probably don't know the name of the man who first figured out ballast, but we can easily come to the conclusion it was shortly after the first railroad train and track sunk in the mud somewhere in England. Ballast, of course, supports rails and trains, provides drainage, etc. Seems like this wouldn't work, but by using angular crushed stone that adheres to the stone next to it it does work. You wouldn't use marbles for the job naturally. However when push comes to shove all the reasons for ballast comes down to two things: speed of trains and MONEY.
There a mathematical formulas for the amount of ballast that must be followed to have safe passage of trains at certain speeds. Passenger trains need the best to roll on at over 100 mph. Trains on one of my layouts can get by with somewhat less than "proper" amounts. I typically model trains that run less that 15 mph. I typically model small lumber or mining operations. AND because these are small operations where the bottom line is everything, maybe, just maybe, because I typically model private backwoods operations I typically will model with MONEY being the end all be all to the companies wellbeing. It is always about the MONEY. Typically!
Logging operations cut the trees and basically moved on to the next forest taking everything with them. All the rails, ties, buildings, etc. were loaded up and reused time and again. Cheaper than leaving it all and rebuilding everything. Mining was sort of the same. A bit more permanent because hopefully the mine would last longer, and pay out longer than a patch of forest. A mine also produced more quick MONEY than timber cutting so more Money would be able to put into the mine and its surrounding support system. Thus the 'Company Town' was born. My current Dead Tree layout models one such company town.
So, if I have a mining or lumber operation and MONEY is so important and my trains go slowly and I'm going to move on someday I know I can save money by simply laying track in the dirt. If it rains and the track sinks it is not a really big deal to add logs under the sunken track and get on with the job! I've chosen this type of layout not because I don't like ballasting, but because I simply like the era, setting, simplicity, and use of scenery, so I've come to this style at the end of my modeling days. I've done all the other stuff, yards, towns, cement streets, ballasted track, and I find this current modeling to be just as rewarding if not more so.
RR, asked about ballast, or the lack thereof, and the in between, so here is a short tutorial on the way I do it, and the way it can also be done, using more MONEY of course, with light ballasting.
First, I glue some HO track down on a piece of painted board.
After drying over night I added spray glue, with NO concern for my rails or ties. In most of these photos you can see the products I used for the picture and in there correct order.
Next I pour WS Earth Blend ground cover over everything.
Using only my fingers, NOT A BRUSH, I spread the ground cover in between the ties, inside the rails and out. Reason just fingers is so some material adheres to the ties and track. Let dry over night.
The next day I rewet with spray glue and add assortments of ground covers. Starting to look like my layout now. I didn't add too much in the way of bushes and weeds because we are interest in the interaction between track and basically over grown dirt to keep our rails in place.
So let's pretend we are modeling a wet, rainy type area where 'plants' alone just can't hold our track firmly enough. The ballast would be used. But remember MONEY is an issue, so typically a couple of miners or loggers would shovel what little ballast they had on to the middle of the track. This was hard work, so getting it off the car and onto the track before lunch or what ever was a priority. When they finished we have something like this:
I've showed the ballasted track along with the un-ballasted track to reflect the shoveling of the ballast on to the track. Remember in the first place when un-ballasted track was laid it was simply squished into the ground on a wet day by the loco's weight.
Jim
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Railrunner130
Well-Known Member
Thanks Jim!
Let me see if I have the steps correct.
1. Secure your track to the appropriate surface.
2. Brush on your glue of choice in large amounts. Theory being that the more glue you use, the more grass that is kept in place. ?
3. Wipe the excess off the tracks and ties.
4. Apply your selected grass mixture.
5. Sweep away the excess. My question here is do you use a weak dust buster to remove the excess if you're using static grass? Or maybe apply the static grass as a separate step?
6. Apply the ballast.
7. Let dry.
8. Clean up the rails.
I wonder if it would work if you applied small amounts of ballast before the grass?
Let me see if I have the steps correct.
1. Secure your track to the appropriate surface.
2. Brush on your glue of choice in large amounts. Theory being that the more glue you use, the more grass that is kept in place. ?
3. Wipe the excess off the tracks and ties.
4. Apply your selected grass mixture.
5. Sweep away the excess. My question here is do you use a weak dust buster to remove the excess if you're using static grass? Or maybe apply the static grass as a separate step?
6. Apply the ballast.
7. Let dry.
8. Clean up the rails.
I wonder if it would work if you applied small amounts of ballast before the grass?
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
RR, With most of these steps there is room for different techniques to be add or subtract. You mentioned No. 3 Reasoning there is the more glue you put on the more initial pour of ground cover you can use. Remember we are modeling track that is buried in the ground. After about two hours I spray more glue and wait until the next day for the next step.
No. 5. Sweep away the excess. If you mean on rails and ties I only use my thumb and fingers. Any clumps are lifted off and pressed into the areas around the track. At no time do I use a vacuum. I want everything I shake on to be there when it dries. I generally 'clean' my 'wet' track with thumb and fore finger. Anything left I leave. Too often modelers don't put enough ground covers on. Nature has been dumping stuff on the ground for eons. We should take the time model Mother Nature's work the best we can.
Lastly you mention ballast before the grass. Absolutely. Let's pretend the ballast was dumped in late summer. Fall and winter come and new grass in the spring will start up through the ballast at some point. I only modeled a 'fresh' pour for you. In most real life situations the ballast would be mixed with grasses after a couple of seasons.
And this of course all leads to my favorite photo. It is for you guys that want to go crazy with overgrown track. Jim
No. 5. Sweep away the excess. If you mean on rails and ties I only use my thumb and fingers. Any clumps are lifted off and pressed into the areas around the track. At no time do I use a vacuum. I want everything I shake on to be there when it dries. I generally 'clean' my 'wet' track with thumb and fore finger. Anything left I leave. Too often modelers don't put enough ground covers on. Nature has been dumping stuff on the ground for eons. We should take the time model Mother Nature's work the best we can.
Lastly you mention ballast before the grass. Absolutely. Let's pretend the ballast was dumped in late summer. Fall and winter come and new grass in the spring will start up through the ballast at some point. I only modeled a 'fresh' pour for you. In most real life situations the ballast would be mixed with grasses after a couple of seasons.
And this of course all leads to my favorite photo. It is for you guys that want to go crazy with overgrown track. Jim
Last edited by a moderator:
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys.
Here is two photos showing the cover and inside of the 2016 On30 Annual. If you are at your LHS check it out. Jim
Here is two photos showing the cover and inside of the 2016 On30 Annual. If you are at your LHS check it out. Jim
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Thank you Mike.
Here's a photo I took a few minutes ago. 'First Run in the Morning' Jim
Here's a photo I took a few minutes ago. 'First Run in the Morning' Jim
Even in close-up the foliage looks real.
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Thanks Toot, but is it real! Jim
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Speaking of real. Here's one. Jim
