Auto reverse modules and turnouts


O

Orange Irish

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Anything to do with wiring is, so far, my weak point by far. On DCC, the attachment hopefully shows a basic layout (dogbone in an "L" that loops under itself in the middle), two 6x10 sections connected by an angled piece in the middle. The addition will be a reverse loop on each end, with turnouts inside each loop. If I wire an auto reverse module on each side correctly, will I have to do anything different to accommodate the turnout sections inside the loops?

Will standard bus wiring adequately power the layout...one bus wire with feeders every 4-5 ft or so, with one 5 amp booster in the middle, or divide the layout in half and power each side independently with a 5 amp booster for each side? A general estimate of track footage is about 100 ft. I'm not counting most of the sidings because I plan to back the locos in and won't need all of each section to be powered.

If anyone is nice enough to answer, keep in mind I'm an electrical novice and may require a 17 page diagram to understand it. Thanks!!
 

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Orange Irish said:
The addition will be a reverse loop on each end, with turnouts inside each loop. If I wire an auto reverse module on each side correctly, will I have to do anything different to accommodate the turnout sections inside the loops?
Click to expand...
The short answer is no. As you have it laid out a locomotive working through the switches would be blocking both entrances, so having multiple trains entering the loop simultaneously is not an issue.

However I would suggest not wiring the auto reverse loop as a loop at all but rather as a reversing section, that doesn't impact the original main line at all. Then the turnout for the interior switching is removed from the reverse loop action.

Will standard bus wiring adequately power the layout...one bus wire with feeders every 4-5 ft or so, with one 5 amp booster in the middle, or divide the layout in half and power each side independently with a 5 amp booster for each side? A general estimate of track footage is about 100 ft. I'm not counting most of the sidings because I plan to back the locos in and won't need all of each section to be powered.
Click to expand...
This is a small layout, one in the middle is plenty sufficient.
 
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Orange Irish said:
Anything to do with wiring is, so far, my weak point by far. On DCC, the attachment hopefully shows a basic layout (dogbone in an "L" that loops under itself in the middle), two 6x10 sections connected by an angled piece in the middle. The addition will be a reverse loop on each end, with turnouts inside each loop. If I wire an auto reverse module on each side correctly, will I have to do anything different to accommodate the turnout sections inside the loops?

Will standard bus wiring adequately power the layout...one bus wire with feeders every 4-5 ft or so, with one 5 amp booster in the middle, or divide the layout in half and power each side independently with a 5 amp booster for each side? A general estimate of track footage is about 100 ft. I'm not counting most of the sidings because I plan to back the locos in and won't need all of each section to be powered.

If anyone is nice enough to answer, keep in mind I'm an electrical novice and may require a 17 page diagram to understand it. Thanks!!
Click to expand...

Iron Horseman is absolutely right. I only have a 1-page diagram, but since you said you were a novice I thought I'd show you exactly what he was talking about. Just use insulated connectors or gap the rails at the red points (or close to them). The rails between those points would be isolated from the main bus and be your two reversing sections. Everything else would operate off of the main bus. Simplest way to do it. And wiring a reversing section is simplicity itself.


reversing.jpg
 
Ok, so then I would just power those two reversing sections separately and not bother with auto reverse modules? Would an auto reverse controller like the Digitrax AR1 be the right option for both reverse sections, or is there something better out there? I'd prefer an auto unit so I don't have to toggle a switch, but it's not necessary.
 
Yes, you would still use auto-reverse modules on those two separated sections. I use the AR1 and am very happy with it. You'll need a separate AR1 for each of those two sections. The two reversing sections would be powered by wires coming off of the AR1 and would not be directly connected to the main bus wires. I would place at least two wire drops (more as needed depending on track length) as equally spaced as possible to maximize signal/voltage quality.
 
MikeOwnby said:
I thought I'd show you exactly what he was talking about. Just use insulated connectors or gap the rails at the red points (or close to them).
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Thanks for doing that. I was going to follow up later, but then I got sweep up into the birth of a grandchild and forgot all about it.
 
You can use one reverse module for the short center section between the two loops.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 
RBMNfan said:
You can use one reverse module for the short center section between the two loops.
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Yes, that could be done but it would depend how short that center section is. If a train could be spanning both sides simultaneously (train is longer than the short section) the auto-reverse could getting conflicting instructions. I have used that configuration for Christmas Tree layouts where the only thing that pulled track power was the locomotive.

This is the real rule for all reversing sections. If one is using metal wheels, lighted caboose, track powered FREDs, lighted passenger cars, or powered helper units at the rear of the train, then the reversing track section has to be as long as the longest train.
 
RBMNfan said:
You can use one reverse module for the short center section between the two loops.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Okay, yeah, you can, but like Iron Horseman just noted, that would shorten the train length if using metal wheels etc. Auto reversing modules are pretty cheap, and in the end it would allow more versatility to just isolate the two sections rather than the shorter middle section.

Edit: Actually, that won't work. You'd still have the two loops coming back on themselves on either side of that center portion. It needs a reversing section on each loop.
 
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Actually it does work. That's how my layout is currently set up. I haven't had issues with metal wheelsets either. But I only have a few cars with metal wheels, most era appropriate cars come with plastic wheels.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 
RBMNfan said:
Actually it does work. That's how my layout is currently set up. I haven't had issues with metal wheelsets either. But I only have a few cars with metal wheels, most era appropriate cars come with plastic wheels.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It can't work if it's just the center section of track "between the two loops". Not possible. You can't have track looping back on itself and creating a short, so the two loops cannot exist as complete, un-isolated sections of track. If you include the center section AND some of the turnouts, then it will work, but you need to make it clear that you're including the turnouts in that and not JUST the center section of track. When you say "between the two loops", a person who's not experienced or having electrical knowledge might leave two complete, un-isolated loops hooked up, while gapping only that center track section, and then find themselves having to go back, cut new gaps, bridge old gaps and re-wire things unneccessarily. Remember that some people may have very limited, or even essentially no, electrical knowledge, so make sure you're very clear and detailed about what you suggest.
 
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MikeOwnby said:
It can't work if it's just the center section of track "between the two loops". Not possible. You can't have track looping back on itself and creating a short, so the two loops cannot exist as complete, un-isolated sections of track. If you include the center section AND some of the turnouts, then it will work, but you need to make it clear that you're including the turnouts in that and not JUST the center section of track. When you say "between the two loops", a person who's not experienced or having electrical knowledge might leave two complete, un-isolated loops hooked up, while gapping only that center track section, and then find themselves having to go back, cut new gaps, bridge old gaps and re-wire things unneccessarily. Remember that some people may have very limited, or even essentially no, electrical knowledge, so make sure you're very clear and detailed about what you suggest.
Click to expand...

Thank You, I am not currently planning any reverse loops, but I am paying close attention and am one of the 'dummies' of whom you speak. I'm barely keepin up!
 
I'm late to the party on this one, but I thought that I would add some observations.

One option, as Iron Horseman and MikeOwnby have already indicated, two reversing sections, each powered by its own auto-reverser, would work quite nicely.

Another option would be to isolate each reverse loop with its own auto-reverser. Just be sure that the distance between the two reverse loops is longer than your longest train.

A third option has already been mentioned. Treat the section of track between the two loops as the single reversing section, only one auto-reverser required. This set-up would need to include the four interior turnouts as part of the reversing section by gapping the far ends of each turnout.

A fourth option would be to treat both reversing sections mentioned in the first option as one single reversing section, requiring only one auto-reverser. This option would incorporate the section of track between the two loops (the third option) as part of the larger single reversing section. The one drawback here is that if more than one train is being run on the layout, it is possible that one train will be entering the reversing section as the other train is exiting the reversing section, causing the auto-reverser to go berserk.

Rich
 
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