Amtrak Train Derails Near Philadelphia
- Thread starter bnsf971
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NYC_George
Well-Known Member
They got rid of the full crew law in 1975. Back then the train had to have 2 people on the head end consisting of an Engineer and fireman. Other then checking the engine oil etc. the fireman was there for safety reasons. I was wondering if the engineer was on the extra list or if it was his normal run. Being I worked the extra list for 10 years it's a hectic life with no sleep most of the time. They never mention this on TV. What was his work schedule for the last week and how much rest did he have in that period. When I first hired out on the RR in 1969 the law was you could work 15 hours and 59 minutes and have 8 hours and 1 minute to rest and they considered you good to do the same thing all over again. That gave you 8 hours to go shopping, eat, shower and sleep and then be back to work the next day. They needed the full crew law in those days. When the law was changed from 16 hours to 12 hours that you could work, which the union was opposed to they got rid of the fireman. Even at the 12 hours it's still a hectic life for an engineer working the extras list. Brain fog starts to set in.
George
George
Boris
Beach Bum
George: The primary reason that MU equipment was selected for the Metroliner program back in the late '60s was that MUs did not require employment of a fireman. Amtrak has been running one operator in a cab on trips of less than 5 hours for quite a while. Can't say whether or not the engineer was regular or on the list. But on Amtrak, most extras are known well in advance, so there are fewer surprises than back in the day.
Most Amtrak assignments in the corridor used to average 8 - 10 hours, including a break at the turning point, where there is a quiet room for naps, and a gym so you can work out the kinks. Most point to point runs are such as # 188 are less than three hours in duration. Not exactly what it was back in the day.
Most Amtrak assignments in the corridor used to average 8 - 10 hours, including a break at the turning point, where there is a quiet room for naps, and a gym so you can work out the kinks. Most point to point runs are such as # 188 are less than three hours in duration. Not exactly what it was back in the day.
NYC_George
Well-Known Member
Your right WJ no fireman on MU's. It's been so long since I worked there I forgot about that. I guess it was because they had that 15 pound throttle you had to hold down and they figured they didn't need a fireman being you had to be awake other wise the brakes would go into emergence if you let the throttle up. In 1975 the Hudson had Positive Train Control, high car detectors, hot box detectors, car tracking scanners, but no curve speed detectors I always wondered why? I guess after the accident there last year they thought maybe we better install it. 40 years to late. I guess they still have the 15 second alerters on engines don't they? I guess the 15 seconds should be cut down to 8 on railroads without Positive Train Control. The top speed you can go on those railroads is, I think 79 mph?
George
George
Boris
Beach Bum
George: I ran an Amtrak Turbo from GCT to Croton - Harmon one evening, back when it was the Metropolitan Division, and road the head end of an FL9 back. That was pretty much my limited experience on the Hudson side of the river. Alertors are still around. I believe that Metro North tops out at either 70mph or 75 mph now.
NTSB let a little tidbit slip this evening, about a radio conversation which occurred shortly before the wreck, between #188's engineer, and the engineer of a SEPTA commuter train that reported it was either rocked or shot at, opening the possibility that the engineer may have been struck by something. Interesting, eh?
NTSB let a little tidbit slip this evening, about a radio conversation which occurred shortly before the wreck, between #188's engineer, and the engineer of a SEPTA commuter train that reported it was either rocked or shot at, opening the possibility that the engineer may have been struck by something. Interesting, eh?
Iron Horseman
Well-Known Member
That is actually old news we knew about three days ago. At that time they discounted it being insignificant to the accident http://www.phillymag.com/news/2015/05/13/amtrak-crash-septa-projectile/. I wonder what has changed that they think it is significant now?
NYC_George
Well-Known Member
WJ I know in 1975 the turbo speed limit above Poughkeepise to Albany was 120 mph and we did 120. I don't know what it is now. You rode an FL9? That must of been a rough ride.
About the rock. Was his window open? I think he dozed off for a minute and when the alerter went off 15 seconds later it was to late but who knows.
George
About the rock. Was his window open? I think he dozed off for a minute and when the alerter went off 15 seconds later it was to late but who knows.
George
Boris
Beach Bum
If the new motor is anything like the cab of the Acela or the old Hippos, the window was not opened. Climate Control! The train was under control until it passed G Street [based on my interpretation of information released by the investigators]. I just don't think he nodded off. I don't think he deliberately tried to crash the train either. Something distracted him, and some how he accelerated instead of braking. I'm not familiar with the control stand of the new locomotives, so I'm not able to speculate on what he may have done.
They now think whatever struck his windshield distracted him. He may very well have ducked under the control stand to take cover, and it doesn't take long for things to get out of hand at speed.
Investigators have found an impact break inconsistent with wreck damage to the windshield in front of the engineer's seat. Maybe somebody was rocking the train.
Investigators have found an impact break inconsistent with wreck damage to the windshield in front of the engineer's seat. Maybe somebody was rocking the train.
Don't know why this accident is being discussed so much here beyond the initial report. Most of the comments are just WAGs But it is the internet so anybody can say anything & who cares if it has any substance. Wonder how many of these wags will be true when the final NTSB report is out or will it even brought up here when it does come out.
rodney mcgiveron
Member
G'day Terry and all , Terrible , terrible accident...Louis was telling me that there is technology to help prevent this sort of thing..What price is safety?...Why doesn't such technology become mandatory if it was the case in this instance...We had a derailment in January with two brand new PL22 TasRail locomotives when the speed protection wasn't functional...no lives lost but a huge amount of wasted money to repair the locos and rolling stock damaged..Someone has to take responsibility for such things..Cheers Rod...
Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
It's like the Sunset Limited wreck in Mobile in 1992 or 93, IIRC. I used to fish that part of the Mobile River and all the bayous around there. Many a time I was under that bridge fishing. Being a foggy night, with the layout of the river there, I can see how someone with little knowledge of reading radar, could have hit the bridge as he did. He did call the Mobile county sheriff's office, saying he had hit something, but he didn't know what it was, as he couldn't see it because of the fog and according to him, (the first mate), it wasn't on radar either.
IIRC 46 or more people died when the train jumped the track and dove into the bayou. It wasn't helped by the fact the nearest place to launch rescue boats was almost 7 miles away by water. There weren't any roads or trails that would allow the First Responders to get closer. It's still Amtrack's worst wreck.
IIRC 46 or more people died when the train jumped the track and dove into the bayou. It wasn't helped by the fact the nearest place to launch rescue boats was almost 7 miles away by water. There weren't any roads or trails that would allow the First Responders to get closer. It's still Amtrack's worst wreck.
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Iron Horseman
Well-Known Member
About 361 Billion as I recall.
It is, all the railroads have to have it installed by 2020, and the implementation is taking them all onto the poor house, especially with the recent traffic down turns. I didn't get a bonus last year because all the profits are being sucked into this project.
Amtrak has already said they take responsibility. They said this on day 1.
We have already taken this "their responsibility" thought to the illogical extreme in the United States. In the past someone actually picked up their lawn mower and was using it to trim hedges. They slipped and cut their hand off. Instead of blaming themselves for being stupid they blamed the lawn mower company. "It's THEIR responsibility." Now everyone who buys a lawn mower in the US has to pay for this stupid "automatic blade stop" system. So I have to pay for that persons stupidity. There are hundreds of examples of this. And truthfully I'm getting sick of it. One cannot make everything in the world 100% idiot proof and 100% accident proof. Look at the space shuttle. Triple back-up systems on everything an still two catastrophic failures.
Well I take that back, I suppose we could pass such laws, spend all the money in the world working on that goal. We could kiss things like model railroading goodbye because of all the possible hazards with electricity, chemicals, knifes heat, not to mention that we wouldn't be able to afford it because every products would cost infinity as would all taxes be infinity. I don't know what we would do for food because of how dangerous all those tractors are, that would have to be banned or also become infinitely expensive with all the safety features on them.
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