4X8 Suggestions appreciated


Hathaway Browne

Hathaway Browne

Intrepid Adventurer
Well the recent drop in temps means that my layout is.. well for want of a better term; frozen for the moment. And of course this again has made think about track planning again. So I would like to ask for suggestions on what, if anything, can be done.

I currently have a twin track loop, but I can see the obvious drawbacks from having the train go from one tunnel to the other and back again.

I have a 4x8 table that I am loathed to replace but wondered if it could be incorporated in a peninsula layout in some way.

I would like to have continuous running (ideally passenger cars), but I suppose I could settle with some sort of U shape loop with an end of line city station on a possible extension.

So, if anyone has any suggestions on what I could do, they would be most appreciated. :)
 
If what you have in mind is already specific, then what you need to do is draw out the plan. You can poke around for ideas, but when push comes to shove, you already know what you want and the poking around is only delaying what you are putting off--drawing up a plan to see what will work in your space with your current layout.

When you get the plan done, we can help you a lot more.

By the way, almost all of those plans could be adapted to a peninsula.
 
Here are a few of layouts that I am investigating to help determine my new layout. These are a few of many that I have been saving aside. Cold weather around here forces indoor projects to get completed. My layout starts in a few weeks witht eh bench work. My open space is 4' x 11' with possibly a 90 degree table at one end or both?!?!

Oh the power and ingenuity of Google...

Here

Here

Lots of em in here - look around
 
I like one of the 4x8 layouts, has the lower loop with passing siding and an upper layer at the rear for the branch line. The Ward City Mead and Eckley layout definatly has potential. Gonna have to measure the room and see if 4x8 will fit and still be able to get the closet door open and my desk in where I do train repair work. Mike
 
SpaceMouse said:
If what you have in mind is already specific, then what you need to do is draw out the plan. You can poke around for ideas, but when push comes to shove, you already know what you want and the poking around is only delaying what you are putting off--drawing up a plan to see what will work in your space with your current layout.

When you get the plan done, we can help you a lot more.

By the way, almost all of those plans could be adapted to a peninsula.
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First off I do apologise if my previous response was in anyway construed as "grumpy".

I think I will try out in Inkscape, for a rough idea.

Mr James said:
Here are a few of layouts that I am investigating to help determine my new layout.
Click to expand...
Thanks for those links! :)

Mr James said:
My open space is 4' x 11' with possibly a 90 degree table at one end or both?!?!
Click to expand...
Y'know I'm not entirely sure what space I've got available. 4x11 sounds 'bout right for me too, maybe a smidge more.

Mr James said:
Here
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I do like the look of Ontario Western Lines on this link. :cool: It's kind of what I had in mind when I wrote the OP.
 
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on thing to consider as soon as you go beyond a 4 x 8 is if you can access the layout in all directions. If you have an 4 x 11 in a corner you will have issues reaching the back of the layout it might not seam like an issue but trust us when we advise not to go over 3' deep unless you can reac it from the other side as well.

trent
 
HB,

I took no offense. But I have see many people who kinda-sorta know what they want go out looking for something that can only be found in their own head. They hate the idea of planning and are looking for an easy way to get the job done. Many times they settle for something close and these are the ones that are extremely lucky.

The best of all worlds is when the realize that they really do know what they want and and build it. I was just hoping to save you a step, because if you think about it, you really do have a pretty good idea of what you want.

BTW. If you can do 5 ft wide, you have a lot more options--especially with passenger cars. Any wider and you can't reach the middle.
 
Thanks Chip. I guess part of me was looking for a "quick fix" with the other half not wanting to go down the "plan doesn't work" route I've been down 3 times now.

Here's a very rough idea I've just knocked up in Inkscape. No scale and not really addressing the obvious issues.

3078308934_4a40d772c7.jpg
 
That's an interesting starting point, however, if you wish to make it more realistic, you could put part of the line in a tunnel and say that it goes somewhere else. Are you going to be using freight on this layout? If you are, then an interchange would add to operation, look cool if done right, and be able to act as visible staging for your freight.
 
Well, you've got a double mainline that goes from a stub end station, out in a big loop, and then back, creating two reverse loops as you return to the station. Once a train leaves the station engine first, it will end up back in the station with engine trapped behind the cars with no way to turn the engine. The only way round that would be to drop the cars on the main before the reverse loop and then back the enine all the way around the loop, couple on, and push the train into the station.

What exactly do you want your layout to be? Is it supposed to be a communter line, general freight, or what? It seems like you concept need some more thought.
 
DaWolf85 said:
That's an interesting starting point, however, if you wish to make it more realistic, you could put part of the line in a tunnel and say that it goes somewhere else.
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Well ideally the "rear" line crossing to the 4x8 would be hidden in a tunnel with the "front" line crossing a bridge" - but I think that's too much of a stretch unless I have some sort of mountainous pass type situation.

Heck while I'm at it, lets add a waterfall in there - that would be a nice focal point and would hide the crossing....well its easy to do on paper eh? :p ;)

In reality though, that'd be awkward to get "just right". Oh well - we have to compromise now and again, don't we?;)

DaWolf85 said:
Are you going to be using freight on this layout? If you are, then an interchange would add to operation, look cool if done right, and be able to act as visible staging for your freight.
Click to expand...
I had thought about having an engine shed of some description. I'll be honest I'm not entirely sure right now what an interchange would involve.:eek:

UP2CSX said:
Well, you've got a double mainline that goes from a stub end station, out in a big loop, and then back, creating two reverse loops as you return to the station. Once a train leaves the station engine first, it will end up back in the station with engine trapped behind the cars with no way to turn the engine. The only way round that would be to drop the cars on the main before the reverse loop and then back the enine all the way around the loop, couple on, and push the train into the station.
Click to expand...
Well yes I figured as much! But how else do all these other mammoth layouts with end-of-the-line stations do it?

UP2CSX said:
What exactly do you want your layout to be? Is it supposed to be a communter line, general freight, or what?
Click to expand...
Haven't really given it any consideration. It'll just be what equipment I've got.

The only requirement would be that it has to have a 22" radius for the Empire Builder passenger car I've got.

UP2CSX said:
It seems like you concept need some more thought.
Click to expand...
Well that is the point of this thread. And as I said, that sketch was only a rough idea - its not as if I'm going to go and lay track according to that.
 
If that 4 x 8 is an extension I wonder why you have a double track leaving and returning. It seems to me a double track is way over-kill. It makes sense to me that a single line should come off the the main cross the bridge then split if you need two lines on that part of the layout. Your dispatcher will control the trains to make sure two are not on the bridge at the same time.

Now you only have one line going over that narrow stretch and you don't have so much to make look good in terms of scenery.

The only reason to have four lines crossing that stretch is if you have the traffic to justify it. If you are bringing this off a folded dog-bone, I very much doubt you have the traffic.
 
You said you wanted a continuous loop layout. Have you considered making a big circle where you basically operate it from the middle. If you wanted to not waste the sheet of plywood, cut it into 1 foot wide strips, and make an 8 X 8 square with basically 1 foot wide "shelves". Cut the outside corner off and put that wedge on the inside of the loop so you can have more gradual turns (such as the 22" curves you mentioned). That could set you up with the 2 line main also. One for your passenger cars, the other for freight.
 
HB, other massive layouts with stub end terminals have runaround tracks where either the road power runs around the train and then backs it in or the head end power is cut off on the run around and a terminal switcher backs the train in. On a small layout, you never have enough room to do this unless most of your layout is consumed by the large stub end terminal.

I realize that this is just a sketch plan but even sketch plans have to make some sense. Just thinking out loud, that peninsula would make more sense if it was used for industries and a freight yard and you used the station shown on the loop as a runthrough main line station.
 
SpaceMouse said:
If that 4 x 8 is an extension I wonder why you have a double track leaving and returning. It seems to me a double track is way over-kill. It makes sense to me that a single line should come off the the main cross the bridge then split if you need two lines on that part of the layout. Your dispatcher will control the trains to make sure two are not on the bridge at the same time.

Now you only have one line going over that narrow stretch and you don't have so much to make look good in terms of scenery.
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I'll be honest, it was purely for visuals (ie two trains passing each other).

The notion of a "mountain pass" actually sounds a much better option, with East having to wait for the Westbound to cross etc.

SpaceMouse said:
The only reason to have four lines crossing that stretch is if you have the traffic to justify it. If you are bringing this off a folded dog-bone, I very much doubt you have the traffic.
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Nah, I certainly won't have "heavy traffic", I don't think I could keep tabs on it all! ;)

Must remember "folded dogbone" - sums it up much better than my original post ramblings!

ken_23434 said:
You said you wanted a continuous loop layout. Have you considered making a big circle where you basically operate it from the middle. If you wanted to not waste the sheet of plywood, cut it into 1 foot wide strips, and make an 8 X 8 square with basically 1 foot wide "shelves". Cut the outside corner off and put that wedge on the inside of the loop so you can have more gradual turns (such as the 22" curves you mentioned). That could set you up with the 2 line main also. One for your passenger cars, the other for freight.
Click to expand...
I'd love to, but I'm too attached to the 4X8 table to start cutting into it. Although that does make me wonder if it could be incorporated that way somehow... (ie 4x8 against the wall with 1 foot shelves coming off it?) I guess I'm still very much in the Blue Sky phase here..

I also thought about an alternative to that "end of line" city station. I remembered today of a station I saw at a local N show where the tracks were "below ground level".
Here's a couple snaps of it I took.....
3080778364_6abedeb74f.jpg


You can see in this pic (thanks to unintentional flash on my camera) that the track loops underneath the houses. (I would make sure that the retaining wall was removable, naturally.)
3079940521_dc6863f203.jpg


Of course the some reductions would need to be made to this if I was to make it in HO.
 
HB, that's actually a much more workable plan, giving the appearance of a stub end station but allowing trains to run through so no need to worry about backing and turning. You would have to make some changes for this to work in HO scale but I like the idea, as long as you plan carefully on how you'll get access to all that hidden trackage.
 
Here is a picture I had snagged off the net that basically fits my description of what I was talking about with the 1 foot wide shelves making a big square or circle.

picture.php


Or, like you said, you could incorporate your existing 4X8 as one side of the square and have the continuous loop operation for your long passenger cars using the other 3 sides. Then, you could maybe use your idea for the station on the 4X8 part and model a good deal of the "city" there.
 
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