Yard Design Feedback


T

Toyguy

Member
As a little background, I'm completely new to the hobby and I am not particularly a railfan. I'm more interested in it from the modeling and technology side of things. I'm looking for something to occupy my mind and hands. I'm definitely going DCC and probably computer control with JMRI or something like it.

My intention is to model my local railroad, the Central Vermont, in that popular era between steam and diesel so I can run both. I have a room of about 10' x 20' that I'll be using and I want to go with an around the wall design with some walk-in peninsulas for more running room. I'm definitely interested in operations as well as in sometimes just setting trains running on autopilot and watching them go. Trains will generally be short, probably 5-7 cars, with the occasional longer one passing through.

The room design I am currently favoring is something like this:

RoomStyle.png


I'm leaning towards a couple helixes at the ends with an under-table runaround track that will allow trains to appear to leave and new ones enter. Staging will likely be under-table as well, with turnouts to and from the runaround track. I'm well aware all that may not fit and the plan may need some re-thinking :)

I started by reading about and working on a yard design for the main yard. There will also be small interchange yards at the ends to simulate connections from other roads. Here's a diagram of what I've come up with so far for the central yard, which will probably end up somewhere in the middle of the long 20' section. The Lead track will likely be extended into the module on its left, as it's currently too short, I think. Engine Service may extend to the module to the right to accomodate a small roundhouse and turntable in an area just right of the classification tracks. The diagram represents 2 modules of 2' x 4' so the yard is 8' long.

I'd love to hear any feedback on it, and don't worry, you can't hurt my feelings. I know I currently know next to nothing about any of this :)

YardDesign.png
 
Not bad for a small yard.

I would probably have moved the crossover from the main into the siding below it at the right end rightwards (past the turnout for the depot), and flipped it so it goes right to left, instead of left to right from the main to the siding below.

Oh, and the yard lead is a bit short if you are planning to switch the yard without using the mainline - which is not necessarily a big deal, if there is not a lot of traffic.


Smile,
Stein
 
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Thanks Stein, that's a good observation on the right side crossover. I'll definitely flip that around. And you're quite right on the Lead, which is why I will most likely extend it into the next module to the left. I'd like it to be long enough for the switcher to withdraw a full class track worth of cars if needed.
 
I would add a crossover on the right, before the freight station siding, going from right to left, off the main to the track below it. As it is now, you have to back the train off the main into the yard. But do add a crossover as Stein suggested.
 
Great ideas - here's Rev 2. Trains can now enter the yard from either end, which was a good catch. As noted, the 2 left-most pieces of sectional track on the Lead will likely be replaced by a 36" flex track extending into the previous module so the Lead can handle a full class-track of cars. The isolated section at the right end of the Lead, past the turnout, might make a good spot to park the switcher or a couple of Caboose.

YardDesign-1.png
 
Don't mind at all - I wouldn't claim any originality on any of this. It's all derived from my reading of a number of John Armstrong books and articles, as well as other track plans, and then shrunk down to fit the space I have available.
 
I would move the left crossover to the yard to the left one switch length, then run the lead to the engine house parallel to the switching lead. That gains you one class track, since the third class track won't really be useful for much since it has to be more or less open to leave room for the cars and engines going to the service area to have tail room.
 
I'm not sure if that's what Dave meant, Stein, but I like your modification a lot! Let's see what other feedback comes in, but that plan of yours looks great.
 
Yes and for the cost of two more switches you could put a crossover between class 3 and the new lead you created, giving the switcher a short runaround that would make serving the spots on the switchback MUCH easier.
 
Stein, I don't think you will need a parallel track going to the service area. Just extend the ladder down one more rung to the service track (A yard ladder is not restricted to switching alone.). In the unlikely event you have a locomotive trying to get out(in) while switching is going on, the switcher can get out of the way or the loco can just wait. Caution: many get carried away with too many switches (TO's) that end up with unnecessary redundancy. While looking impressive, they end up being impractical and not very prototypical (not to mention expensive).:)
 
RexHea said:
Stein, I don't think you will need a parallel track going to the service area. Just extend the ladder down one more rung to the service track (A yard ladder is not restricted to switching alone.). In the unlikely event you have a locomotive trying to get out(in) while switching is going on, the switcher can get out of the way or the loco can just wait. Caution: many get carried away with too many switches (TO's) that end up with unnecessary redundancy. While looking impressive, they end up being impractical and not very prototypical (not to mention expensive).:)
Click to expand...

Yeah, those are valid points.

If I wanted a small yard, I probably would have done just a simple little yard, instead of trying to make a small yard that has it all - engine terminal, dedicated yard lead, dedicated classification tracks on so on and so forth.

Say something like this - inspired by trackage in a small Texas town in the 1920s - just 7 turnouts, 4 local industries and a depot, fairly flexible in terms in use - can be used for train meets, dropping off or picking up cuts of cars, including interchange traffic, or supporting local switching:

sabrr_shiner.jpg


Or you could continue to spin on from the original idea of the OP - 11 turnouts, a couple of double ended tracks, a couple of single ended tracks, a couple of industries, and also focus on a small engine terminal with room for several engines, but maybe drop the dedicated yard lead - unless the layout will have a lot of operators and much traffic, it is not a given that you need a dedicated yard lead.

gutsch03.jpg


There are lots of ways to do a small yard. What makes sense really depends on how the yard will be used.

Smile,
Stein
 
Stein, don't get me wrong, your design in post #5, rev.2, should offer fun and solid operation; lead access that will get your freight off the mainline and not interrupt its service; a through track for your Freight/Pass depot, also ideal. I would just extend the ladder one more (no parallel) to the straightened engine service track and have the service area designed like the last drawing in your last post, eliminating that crossover.

You make a very good point in saying that the work of the yard will dictate its design. Many try to put large yard facilities in a small yard and sacrifice car storage and practical operation. I guess the main questions for you: Do I have the storage needed? Do I have room for anything else? :)
 
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RexHea said:
You make a very good point in saying that the work of the yard will dictate its design. Many try to put large yard facilities in a small yard and sacrifice car storage and practical operation. I guess the main questions for you: Do I have the storage needed? Do I have room for anything else? :)
Click to expand...

Oh, this is not a yard for me. It is a yard for the original poster in this thread.
Who hasn't yet described the operational needs for the yard as part of his layout.

Smile,
Stein
 
Thanks for all the input guys, it's been really helpful in understanding things.

This yard will be the main yard for the layout and will be generally in the center of the entire route. From the left, trains will be entering from "the south" bringing finished goods and some raw materials. Some of the that stuff will be delivered right at the yard station, while other parts of it will be built into other trains making deliveries on the route to the right, headed "North". So basically the southern and northern runs will be single track mainline with sidings off to various industries for pickup and delivery.

Locomotives and cars will generally "live" in this central yard, so it will need to be sized reasonably for that, and that's why there's engine service and a repair area, that will really be used mostly for storage.

On the northern and southern-most ends of the mainline, I will probably use very small yards to simulate interchanges and provide some minimal storage along with a logical "end" to the line.

Not knowing all the terminology and such, that's about the best way I can describe it.

At the moment I am leaning towards an amalgamation of everyone's ideas, using the single ladder extended down to the engine house track, making Class track 3 usable, with the 3 track service area in Stein's last drawing. I think that will accomodate my needs and still fit well enough in the ~8' I'd like it to use.
 
RexHea said:
Stein, I don't think you will need a parallel track going to the service area. Just extend the ladder down one more rung to the service track (A yard ladder is not restricted to switching alone.). In the unlikely event you have a locomotive trying to get out(in) while switching is going on, the switcher can get out of the way or the loco can just wait. Caution: many get carried away with too many switches (TO's) that end up with unnecessary redundancy. While looking impressive, they end up being impractical and not very prototypical (not to mention expensive).:)
Click to expand...

Stein's application is actually prototypical. Engine shop leads are not usually a part of the switching ladder. Locomotives would be going in and out all the time and the switching crews would get nothing done. I would only see that application in a very very small yard with a turn around service for engines, not a repair facility.
 
Toyguy said:
Great ideas - here's Rev 2. Trains can now enter the yard from either end, which was a good catch. As noted, the 2 left-most pieces of sectional track on the Lead will likely be replaced by a 36" flex track extending into the previous module so the Lead can handle a full class-track of cars. The isolated section at the right end of the Lead, past the turnout, might make a good spot to park the switcher or a couple of Caboose.

YardDesign-1.png
Click to expand...

Here's a variation of your thyme that should clear up the possible conflicts between the yard & hostler jobs. Any of the ? spots are just suggestions. Whatever plan you come with loosely tack it down (w/o ballast) & switch it to see if it meets your needs for operations.
 
SABRR: On the contrary, in many yards locos do use the ladder to get through and around the yards, in addition to using double slips and turnouts to cross yard tracks when necessary. What works is what is used. Yard leads and service area leads are used when there is enough traffic to warrant the expense and there is real estate available for this use. If not, even mainlines are used for these purposes. Prototypical (the most misused word in MR) only means typical for a full size railroad and even then is only a general term: not an absolute.

What makes the separate service lead seem "unprototypical" and impractical in this design is the fact it is parallel to the yard ladder that can easily feed the service tracks. Bottom line for a RR is what does the job that is simple, cheap, and with design dependent on space. I doubt you will find any two yards alike in the US, so ToyGuy could go most any direction he thinks will get the job done for what he wants to do.;)

Stein: Sorry pal! I don't know how I got the names screwed up.:D
 
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