I am trying to design a small yard with services for steam era power. The images are what I came up with. It is in N scale. I have the 130 foot turn table that will have a roundhouse, next to it is two track to a machine shop, the gray box is the are for the ash pit, sand, water and coaling tower. I like the top on having a separate yard area for stuff like the caboose track, MOW train etc. I'm not sure on which would be closer to prototypical. I'm not running any specific road names as my plan is to create a fictional railroad so no specific area, towns or regions. Thanks in advance for any advice and feedback.
Yard design advice
- Thread starter jsamm2010
- Start date
I am trying to design a small yard with services for steam era power. The images are what I came up with. It is in N scale. I have the 130 foot turn table that will have a roundhouse, next to it is two track to a machine shop, the gray box is the are for the ash pit, sand, water and coaling tower. I like the top on having a separate yard area for stuff like the caboose track, MOW train etc. I'm not sure on which would be closer to prototypical. I'm not running any specific road names as my plan is to create a fictional railroad so no specific area, towns or regions. Thanks in advance for any advice and feedback.
D&J RailRoad
Professor of HO
I think you would be better off with the longer yard tracks instead of the two yards. RIP track, CAB and roundhouse are fine.
santafewillie
Same Ol' Buzzard
Small??? Prototypical or not, I like both designs. They both need yard leads though. For N scale, the second yard will hold about 24-26 freight cars per each longer track. Maybe 20 per track on the shorter ones.
Rico
BN Modeller
Something to consider is if you want to use it for staging whole trains then long tracks are for you. If you plan to use It for switching/sorting cars then shorter tracks are the way to go.
Personally I’d prefer shorter to sort and some longer ones to make up the trains so a mix of the two if you can.
My previous layout had all long yard tracks and I ended up shortening some, not much fun having to pull an entire track to dig out one car. (yes the prototype sometimes has to)
Personally I’d prefer shorter to sort and some longer ones to make up the trains so a mix of the two if you can.
My previous layout had all long yard tracks and I ended up shortening some, not much fun having to pull an entire track to dig out one car. (yes the prototype sometimes has to)
The caboose track and rip track are two different things and generally aren't combined. The rip track is where they repair bad order cars and the cab track is where they store and service cabooses. The rip track has to be blue flagged and is only opened once or twice a shift to remove repaired cars and spot bad orders. The caboose track is used every time a train arrives or departs.
Not sure what you are calling the "MOW" train. Wreckers are generally part of the mechanical department (the people who work on cars and locomotives) and the MOW, maintenance of way, is part of the engineering department, the people who work on the tracks, bridges, signals, buildings, etc. Normally the wrecker is stored near the roundhouse or the rip track. If it's a steam wrecker it is near the roundhouse so the wrecker boiler can be quickly charged with steam from the roundhouse shop steam plant.
A lot of the yard design depends on what you are going to do with it. Neither plan appears to have a switching lead on either end, so it doesn't look like either yard is intended to do classification switching.
The bottom plan looks like it is designed to hold larger trains but the caboose tracks are cumbersome to get to since they can only be accessed from one end. The top yard looks more prototypical in some ways but not sure what the little yard to the right is being used for. It looks like it should be for building locals.
I would add switch leads to the lower plan, change the rip/cab tracks to just caboose tracks, and double end them. I would move the rip track to where you have "machine shed". I would add a switching lead separate from the main on one or both ends and a parallel lead on each end so the stuff going to or from the engine facilities doesn't have to occupy the switching ladder. With that size yard you could put one engine on one end that does nothing but switch inbound trains and the switcher on the other end that does nothing but build outbound trains.
Not sure what you are calling the "MOW" train. Wreckers are generally part of the mechanical department (the people who work on cars and locomotives) and the MOW, maintenance of way, is part of the engineering department, the people who work on the tracks, bridges, signals, buildings, etc. Normally the wrecker is stored near the roundhouse or the rip track. If it's a steam wrecker it is near the roundhouse so the wrecker boiler can be quickly charged with steam from the roundhouse shop steam plant.
A lot of the yard design depends on what you are going to do with it. Neither plan appears to have a switching lead on either end, so it doesn't look like either yard is intended to do classification switching.
The bottom plan looks like it is designed to hold larger trains but the caboose tracks are cumbersome to get to since they can only be accessed from one end. The top yard looks more prototypical in some ways but not sure what the little yard to the right is being used for. It looks like it should be for building locals.
I would add switch leads to the lower plan, change the rip/cab tracks to just caboose tracks, and double end them. I would move the rip track to where you have "machine shed". I would add a switching lead separate from the main on one or both ends and a parallel lead on each end so the stuff going to or from the engine facilities doesn't have to occupy the switching ladder. With that size yard you could put one engine on one end that does nothing but switch inbound trains and the switcher on the other end that does nothing but build outbound trains.
Snowman
Well-Known Member
Good advice from everyone who replied so far. Yes, you will need at least one yard lead at one end, and one at each end would be a lot better. RIP track and wrecker work really well on the bottom/closer side of the roundhouse--you would want to keep the boiler pressure up all the time so it's ready to go ASAP when needed. I also think a RIP track would benefit from open space on at least one side to use as a working space for the repair guys--working between closely spaced tracks would be really tough, and even dangerous, as the paralleling caboose track would NOT be governed by the blue-flag rule. It'd also make a good space for a repair scene backed up by the roundhouse. In that case, I'd park the wrecker/wreck train next to the roundhouse wall, with the RIP track further out.
The ash-pit needs only a short space, not a full length pit--the yard hogger or incoming engineer could easily spot it so that the fire can be dumped into that small pit from the firebox, which also makes it a bit more challenging to spot it correctly. The ashes would typically be pulled up from the ash-pit bottom hoist bucket high enough to dump them into a gondola set on a paralleling track, so a pit just one gondola length would be all you need. It also need be just one or two tracks wide, with the third track used to park the gondola. Makes for a switching move too, and you can dump it and re-spot the gondola again for the next filled hoist bucket every ten minutes if you want to--I won't complain.
The ash-pit needs only a short space, not a full length pit--the yard hogger or incoming engineer could easily spot it so that the fire can be dumped into that small pit from the firebox, which also makes it a bit more challenging to spot it correctly. The ashes would typically be pulled up from the ash-pit bottom hoist bucket high enough to dump them into a gondola set on a paralleling track, so a pit just one gondola length would be all you need. It also need be just one or two tracks wide, with the third track used to park the gondola. Makes for a switching move too, and you can dump it and re-spot the gondola again for the next filled hoist bucket every ten minutes if you want to--I won't complain.
They both will have switching leads on the ends, I didn't include them in the image because I was trying to get measurements for the yard space alone. I am also still working on the designs for that. I was hoping to incorporate some sort of double track to keep stuff from fouling the switching leads. As for the actual main line, it will be a double track section on the North (top) side of the yard and isn't shown. I have low RAM on my pc and can't put very many tracks in my software at a time without it slowing down or crashing completely.
The original idea for the top image was to have a larger rail served industry nearby the yard that was serviced through the smaller section along with a parked maintenance train and the caboose track. To be honest, the only reason for the maintenance of way train is because I like the look of them.
The bottom image was more maximizing the space and accommodate longer trains.
I don't know if that really clears anything up, it's all still a work in progress and I still have much to learn. I skipping a lot of steps because my previous layout was a simple kidney bean on essentially an old door (2 1/2 ft by 5 ft) and now I have a much larger space (still negotiating with my wife on how much I can take).
I will make some adjustments and add some new images soon. I'm trying to avoid going to wide so I can still reach across everything somewhat easily.
I just left space for the ash pit and stuff because I haven't bought the building/kits yet and I'm not sure on their footprint. I did intend on a track for the gondola at the ash pit and then have sand and water inline with the ash pit with a coal tower supplying two tracks. The coal tower I have is the Walthers cornerstone wood coaling tower.Good advice from everyone who replied so far. Yes, you will need at least one yard lead at one end, and one at each end would be a lot better. RIP track and wrecker work really well on the bottom/closer side of the roundhouse--you would want to keep the boiler pressure up all the time so it's ready to go ASAP when needed. I also think a RIP track would benefit from open space on at least one side to use as a working space for the repair guys--working between closely spaced tracks would be really tough, and even dangerous, as the paralleling caboose track would NOT be governed by the blue-flag rule. It'd also make a good space for a repair scene backed up by the roundhouse. In that case, I'd park the wrecker/wreck train next to the roundhouse wall, with the RIP track further out.
The ash-pit needs only a short space, not a full length pit--the yard hogger or incoming engineer could easily spot it so that the fire can be dumped into that small pit from the firebox, which also makes it a bit more challenging to spot it correctly. The ashes would typically be pulled up from the ash-pit bottom hoist bucket high enough to dump them into a gondola set on a paralleling track, so a pit just one gondola length would be all you need. It also need be just one or two tracks wide, with the third track used to park the gondola. Makes for a switching move too, and you can dump it and re-spot the gondola again for the next filled hoist bucket every ten minutes if you want to--I won't complain.
ctclibby
Well-Known Member
JSamm:
Good comments from all above. Maybe the question to ask is 'why is this yard at this location on your railroad'? Consider the pix:
Parkwater, Spokane WA Google Maps link as this is to big to see the small stuff. In other words, click the link, zoom in and move around.
Yardley/Parkwater is a divisional yard and crew change. To the West ( Left ) the main splits Southeast to Pasco/Kennewick, and Eastward to Wenatchee at Sunset/Latah Junction. To the East ( xNP ) about 60 miles it splits to the xGN HiLine ( The Fish ) and xNP, xMRL to Missoula at Sandpoint. UP also has trackage rights from the North ( not shown ) at Napa Street to the East toward Hinkle at Latah JCT. BNSF also has a line coming in from the North ( xGN ), Kettle Falls turn.
Bottom of the pix you will find 2 Mains and about 5 A/D tracks. The upper right is TOFC/COFC of which if you are steam era, probably not needed. All the MoW and shops are inside that loop top center. The smaller yard above the main yard; kinda left center are for car storage waiting for their E/W movement. To the right of that, looks to be materials loading and RiP. Turntable is still there and you can see the footprint of the NP roundhouse. There used to be fuel tanks going around that loop on the right side, but long gone. Fueling is now a BIG facility East 15 miles or so at Hauser. As you can probably tell, this is a busy place.
This is probably not exactly what you want, but all the parts are there for what is described above. From the amount of class tracks and that small holding yard, your yard is gonna be a busy place also. This needs planning to work smooth. So with that in mind, consider:
2 Mains by-passing the yard
1 ( hopefully 2 ) A/D tracks the length of your longest train, usually siding length too.
Yard lead on each end for your longest train for yard dog(s)
Yard dog does not foul the main and can work unimpeded breaking/making trains.
If movement is terminating, engine(s) can make it to fuel/cinder/oil/maintenance without impeding the yard dog or Main(s).
Note that because MRR's have limited space, the smaller yard does not have to be double-ended and the yard dog can pull stuff out when needed; cutting cars in/out as warranted. You can see from the pix above, that smaller yard is double ended with ways back to the main yard on both ends. Ya, they have the space.
In any event, have fun with your design!
Oh, and also note that once you zoom in above, you will find all sorts of industries served.
Later
[edit] and I forgot, the TOFC/COFC part also has A/D tracks but probably not what you want. The main yard A/D is now used for crew change although I have seen a yard dog grab stuff out of them at times. Those A/D's can fit a 2 miler coming in from both ways and not occupy the Rail/Road crossing at Park Road to the East, nothing to the west except the Amtrak Station. At one time, there were 100 trains a day coming/going, less than that now.
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Snowman
Well-Known Member
A How-to article about building a cinder pit (aka ash-dump) can be found in this issue. I have not perused it, but noticed it's listed on the magazines cover: https://shop.whiteriverproductions.com/products/rmc-202312
Even without seeing it, I'll hazard a guess this one would be sized for a small, outlying yard, rather than for a major division point/terminal/shops service location.
Even without seeing it, I'll hazard a guess this one would be sized for a small, outlying yard, rather than for a major division point/terminal/shops service location.
I did a bit of re-designing taking inspiration from the Parkwater image and a few other reference images I found perusing the internet. I liked the aesthetic of the split ladders and tried to emulate that. In this new design, the blue lines are the double main, yellow are the A/D tracks, red are the yard leads, teal are the yard tracks and green is the service area. The service area will have main line access that doesn't impede the leads and there will be a caboose track running along the ladder on the right side. These weren't in the image because I forgot to add them in and didn't notice before. The yard is actually situated around a corner of my layout design and I wanted a stretched out (straight) image. The general idea for the layout is a fictional small rail company servicing an area similar to the four state area around Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma and Arkansas. This yard is simulating the main yard for the company and there will be a hidden staging area simulating an interchange with the major railroads.
ctclibby
Well-Known Member
Ya, better IMHO. Corner yard is pretty much what I have tentatively come up with on the lower level. HO scale. That inside track is 36"r. 28" reach in to the 57"r outside Main. Shortest yard ladder holds a little more than 20ft of cars, A/D more than that. Geesh, I need more cars! Cabeese is under the 'ByPass' track ( other end too ). Further up ( West ) is also a TT and RH and steam service and that glue. Basically I have diesel service on the East end, Steam on the West.
I have been on the fence with a secondary yard for those cars waiting that could extend bottom left, will figure that out when I see the whole thing 1:1. I probably need to move the A/D's a little further from the Mains ( bottom 2 tracks ) ... time will tell.
Note that I did not take the time to make stuff 'flow' in Xtrack, not gonna worry about it until build time.
Oh, that red square is a ceiling light - forgot to turn them off in the drawing.
Later!
I have been on the fence with a secondary yard for those cars waiting that could extend bottom left, will figure that out when I see the whole thing 1:1. I probably need to move the A/D's a little further from the Mains ( bottom 2 tracks ) ... time will tell.
Note that I did not take the time to make stuff 'flow' in Xtrack, not gonna worry about it until build time.
Oh, that red square is a ceiling light - forgot to turn them off in the drawing.
Later!
ctclibby
Well-Known Member
Mikey: If you are talking about me - yup, need more cars. Have around 500 right now and that is almost enough to populate some of the stuff. Have 12 trains in storage along with the major yard. Could run out just doing that. Still need more for the minor yard(s) and industry areas. Time will tell.
Later
Later
