What if PennCentral never happened?

[Davidellias]

Just was thinking about this. What if the PRR and NYC never merged?

What would have happened to them, and more interestingly what wouldhave happened to the smaller Pennsylvania area railroads that formed Conrail? Would Conrail have happened?

I don't know much about the political climate around that time with the railroads, but I wonder if the Pennsy and NYC would have just ended buying the railroads out or merging with them? I also wonder if some of the railroads would have gotten involved (Such as the Chessie system or N&W)


Ah but alas it is speculation.

 

[Dameon]

I'd speculate the Chessie System would have slowly gobbled them up.

However, you could go on at length debating how the PRR and NYC management would have handled their empires through 70 & 80s. Overall I think if you sat and looked back at this "alternate timeline" from the alternate 2012 it would have been an ever darker era for the railroads and a huge mess leaving freight rail service in the north east virtualy non-existent.

 

[otiscnj]

Originally, Chessie or N&W was to buy a good portion of the EL. At the last minute they backed out, and EL became part of Conrail.

I heard one story that Chessie backed out of several purchases (RD/CNJ) due to labor costs. Don't forget that in 1977, many trains went out with 5 man crews.

The 'what if' I consider, and use to a certain degree for my model railroading, is if the PC had been allowed to dump all the branch and secondary lines that they wanted to, back in the early 70's. 'Trains' magazine had a centerfold of this plan, at some point in the early 70's. At one time, before Conrail, the Government studies planned on a PC/Conrail and EL scenario.

A bigger suprise in some ways, was the SP/UP combination. I don't think many people suspected that was to come, when Conrail was formed. Of course, when BN became a reality, all those years after Hill had attempted to do this, could a combination of the Harriman roads been far behind?

If you go back to the 20's or 30's you'll find that the Government (ICC) had a plan for the merger of railroads into 4 or so systems in the east, with different routings than we have today.

 

[el3637]

There were a number of mergers planned that didn't happen, such as N&W + C&O. The EL and D&H were already owned or at least largely controlled by the N&W via Dereco up until Conrail.

Penn Central never happened? Hmm. First is what would have become of the New Haven? Would it have bankrupted, and taken over by the Pennsy or someone else? The PC merger made some sense on paper because they were direct competitors with lots of redundancy, but they weren't permitted to slash out the redundancy that would have made them a leaner company. This didn't happen until the Stanley Crane era of Conrail.

The N&W acquisition of the NKP and Wabash was good deal for them, it brought them to Chicago and diversified their operation substantially.

Andy

 

[DirtyD79]

I think one or the other would have went out of business completely with the survivor being absorbed in a merger or purchase of some kind. At that time railroads in general were hampered by outdated and Draconian regulations as well as losing customers due to the trucking and bus industry, the effects of years of deferred maintenance, redundant routes with no way of getting rid of them, and no way of adjusting prices to maintain profits or at the very least offset some of the losses.

As others have said The Penn Central merger made sense on paper and looked like a possible solution but in addition to all those other problems faced mismanagement and incompatable corporate cultures. If not for Conrail and The Staggers Act rail transportation in the Northeast would have probably been done for.