N
NP2626
Guest
Can someone outline using Radio Control (R/C) Servos for actuating turnouts? I've seen servo mounts for doing this; but, am unsure of how to wire and how to actually move the points with a servo.
I looked up the Ring Engineering Railpro system, as it's radio controlled and in the Q&A's it said this,
How many turnouts can be controlled?
There is no realistic limitation on the number of turnouts that can be controlled by a RailPro system. So take that for what it's worth, least it confirms it.
If you're thinking about DCC with a radio cab, then stationary decoders are available to operate turnout motors (no doubt Railpro's would be similar, just different) that get their digital signal through the track/main buss, from the cab.
How many turnouts can be controlled?
There is no realistic limitation on the number of turnouts that can be controlled by a RailPro system. So take that for what it's worth, least it confirms it.
If you're thinking about DCC with a radio cab, then stationary decoders are available to operate turnout motors (no doubt Railpro's would be similar, just different) that get their digital signal through the track/main buss, from the cab.
Red Oak & Western
Active Member
You need something to control the servo. I am using Arduino boards. They (the Arduino boards) are very inexpensive, less than $3 each. They are actually very simple to program. I am mostly using them 1 to 1: one servo per Arduino. The total cost per turnout is less than $5.00. They are no more difficult to install than a Tortoise machine.
Basically, you use a switch, push button, DCC decoder to tell the controller what to do. The controller then sends the necessary signals to the servo for it to shift from one side to the other.
I know there are a couple of commercial controllers to use servos, TAM Valley for one, but with the Arduinos as inexpensive as they are, I went that route. If you want more info, I'll be happy to go into it.
Basically, you use a switch, push button, DCC decoder to tell the controller what to do. The controller then sends the necessary signals to the servo for it to shift from one side to the other.
I know there are a couple of commercial controllers to use servos, TAM Valley for one, but with the Arduinos as inexpensive as they are, I went that route. If you want more info, I'll be happy to go into it.
N
NP2626
Guest
You guys are ages ahead of me with technology. I am set up with toggle switches on a control panel to control turnouts and that is how I want to stay. What I'm looking for is how to wire to a toggle switch to the servo and I think someone makes a holder for the servo that the actuator rod hooks to, that is what I'd like to know.
railBuilderDhd
Active Member
Hi keven,
I can't tell you how perfect it is to find this post right now. I just purchased 12 servos and I have an arduino uno board. I lmpw that board was not as cheap as you are saying but I know there are others out there. I would would love to know all about what you have done and how to I can do this myself. I would love to be sure I can run these with DCC.
We can take this offline of you would like to since I want to know as much details as I can.
Thanks
Dave
Red Oak & Western
Active Member
Got the kids at the house today so my replies will be kinda short. I have no problem posting all the info here, since, back when I was teaching, I knew that if one person asked a question, there were at least half a dozen others with the same question but just didn't want to be the one to ask.
NP - you can't just hook a toggle switch to a servo. A servo needs to be told how many "steps" to move with each actuation. You can use a toggle switch to tell the controller which way to set the servo. You can purchase servo mounting kits, but it really is easy to make your own. We can turn this into a "Building Servo Turnout Controls" thread if you want or I can start another thread showing how to do it.
Back later.
NP - you can't just hook a toggle switch to a servo. A servo needs to be told how many "steps" to move with each actuation. You can use a toggle switch to tell the controller which way to set the servo. You can purchase servo mounting kits, but it really is easy to make your own. We can turn this into a "Building Servo Turnout Controls" thread if you want or I can start another thread showing how to do it.
Back later.
railBuilderDhd
Active Member
Kevin
Please enjoy the time with your kids. That's more important then any train questions that could be asked.
I figured there will be some work figuring out how to mount the servos but not that much an issue.
I would be glad to be a part of a thread and will add as much as I can.
How about DCC control? Have you had luck with that?
So many questions and ideas so I can't wait to see this evolve.
Dave
Kevin, when you can find the time, I think a thread such as you propose would be very welcome in the electronics etc forum, might even earn a sticky
If you have a look at this site, you will find a few different ways to operate a servo for your turnouts, there are a few videos there which demonstrate the various boards and options.
They all connect to your DCC bus and operate off that.
http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/
SwitchWright Switch Machine
Singlet Micro DCC Accessory Decoder
Octopus III
They all connect to your DCC bus and operate off that.
http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/
SwitchWright Switch Machine
Singlet Micro DCC Accessory Decoder
Octopus III
N
NP2626
Guest
As is always the case, had I thought my question through a bit more, I could have been better at explaining what I want. First of all, although my layout operates via DCC, I don't want; or, need to operate turnouts via a hand held throttle. I have control panels with toggle switches on them for operating turnouts and want to stay with that method of operation. I would likely want to use some servo operated turnouts with micro switches to change polarity of the frogs. Someone above mentioned that you can't simply operate a turnout with a servo by simply flipping a toggle switch. O.K. then what is needed?
If you are going to give your answers at a different location than this one, could you please post that information here, before you start a new thread? Also, please explain your information as though you are talking to someone less tech savvy than you are.
If you are going to give your answers at a different location than this one, could you please post that information here, before you start a new thread? Also, please explain your information as though you are talking to someone less tech savvy than you are.
Last edited by a moderator:
railBuilderDhd
Active Member
Np,
I also want to know options of servos and what can be done with these little buggers.
I am very interested in finding out if and how I can use the Arduino boards to control the servo with DCC controlling the boards. I'm interested in learning as much as I can for other options as well.
Dave
I also want to know options of servos and what can be done with these little buggers.
I am very interested in finding out if and how I can use the Arduino boards to control the servo with DCC controlling the boards. I'm interested in learning as much as I can for other options as well.
Dave
Red Oak & Western
Active Member
I have no problem posting all the info here. The reasons I suggested moving the thread are 1) I didn't want to "take over" your thread and 2) there is always the issue of "thread creep", where the original topic gets lost as the thread evolves (or devolves).
Here is a simplified over view of how a servo works:
A servo is a special type of motor. I'll use the common SG90 as an example. It can turn approximately 180 degrees, + / - 90 degrees from center. It has three wires attached to it: + voltage, - voltage (ground), and control. When the appropriate voltage is applied, ~5vdc, the servo does nothing. Here's where it gets a little complex. A pair of pulses are applied to the control wire. The first pulse tells the servo "I'm telling you where to go". The size and timing of the second pulse tells the servo haw many degrees to move. This is why you must have some type of "controller" to operate a servo.
There are several companies that make controllers specifically for model railroad applications. As mentioned, TAM Valley is one. Totally aside, I'm a fan of TAM Valley products, though I don't use their servo controllers. They range from fairly simple to quite complex. They can be used with simple toggle switches or integrated into a DCC system. The choice is yours. I don't use any of the commercial controllers because they tend to be (relatively) expensive running from $16 to over $50 AND I love "tinkering" and making things. That's one of the reasons I so enjoy model railroading -- I get to make neat things!
Here's some random items I worked up last night:
Some servos can operate 360 degrees, others are linear (back and forth).
Here's an Arduino UNO for $1.99, US seller, including shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-UNO-R3-...684646?hash=item1a20a2b866:g:-LAAAOSwB09YK75I
You'll need a USB A-B cable.
If you don't have one, I've got a bunch and could send one. Trust me (yah, I know, I know), if you can post to the forum, you can upload a program to an Arduino. Maybe not write one, but there is a lot of ready to go code out there, including mine.
The fun thing about using an Arduino, is you can easily set up route control.
More later.
Here is a simplified over view of how a servo works:
A servo is a special type of motor. I'll use the common SG90 as an example. It can turn approximately 180 degrees, + / - 90 degrees from center. It has three wires attached to it: + voltage, - voltage (ground), and control. When the appropriate voltage is applied, ~5vdc, the servo does nothing. Here's where it gets a little complex. A pair of pulses are applied to the control wire. The first pulse tells the servo "I'm telling you where to go". The size and timing of the second pulse tells the servo haw many degrees to move. This is why you must have some type of "controller" to operate a servo.
There are several companies that make controllers specifically for model railroad applications. As mentioned, TAM Valley is one. Totally aside, I'm a fan of TAM Valley products, though I don't use their servo controllers. They range from fairly simple to quite complex. They can be used with simple toggle switches or integrated into a DCC system. The choice is yours. I don't use any of the commercial controllers because they tend to be (relatively) expensive running from $16 to over $50 AND I love "tinkering" and making things. That's one of the reasons I so enjoy model railroading -- I get to make neat things!
Here's some random items I worked up last night:
Some servos can operate 360 degrees, others are linear (back and forth).
Here's an Arduino UNO for $1.99, US seller, including shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-UNO-R3-...684646?hash=item1a20a2b866:g:-LAAAOSwB09YK75I
You'll need a USB A-B cable.
If you don't have one, I've got a bunch and could send one. Trust me (yah, I know, I know), if you can post to the forum, you can upload a program to an Arduino. Maybe not write one, but there is a lot of ready to go code out there, including mine.
The fun thing about using an Arduino, is you can easily set up route control.
More later.
jdetray
Well-Known Member
Having already built a layout with 11 turnouts that are controlled by means of servos, I can relate my experience.
I use controller boards from Tam Valley Depot, and I have found them to be easy to use and easy to set up -- nearly plug-and-play.
All of their boards allow control from pushbuttons that you mount on a control panel or on the fascia near the turnout. Their QUAD and Singlet boards also allow DCC control. Their Octopus board does not include DCC control, though it can be added later.
As you might guess from the names of the boards, the Singlet, QUAD, and Octopus will control 1, 4, and 8 turnouts respectively.
All connections between the boards, servos, fascia controllers, and other accessories is by means of R/C servo-type cables. Thus, no soldering is required to hook up everything.
The cables and servos can be purchased from Tam Valley or from any vendor of R/C equipment. For HO and N-scale, industry standard "9-gram servos" work well. These are widely available as "SG-90 servos" for about $2.00 each if you shop around.
Tam Valley sells its SwitchWright servo mounting bracket that allows a servo to actuate a turnout in a fashion similar to a Tortoise. Or you can roll your own linkage between the servo and the turnout's throwbar, which is what I did.
All setup and alignment is performed by pushbuttons on the Tam Valley boards.
I am not affiliated with them, just a happy customer since 2010.
- Jeff
I use controller boards from Tam Valley Depot, and I have found them to be easy to use and easy to set up -- nearly plug-and-play.
All of their boards allow control from pushbuttons that you mount on a control panel or on the fascia near the turnout. Their QUAD and Singlet boards also allow DCC control. Their Octopus board does not include DCC control, though it can be added later.
As you might guess from the names of the boards, the Singlet, QUAD, and Octopus will control 1, 4, and 8 turnouts respectively.
All connections between the boards, servos, fascia controllers, and other accessories is by means of R/C servo-type cables. Thus, no soldering is required to hook up everything.
The cables and servos can be purchased from Tam Valley or from any vendor of R/C equipment. For HO and N-scale, industry standard "9-gram servos" work well. These are widely available as "SG-90 servos" for about $2.00 each if you shop around.
Tam Valley sells its SwitchWright servo mounting bracket that allows a servo to actuate a turnout in a fashion similar to a Tortoise. Or you can roll your own linkage between the servo and the turnout's throwbar, which is what I did.
All setup and alignment is performed by pushbuttons on the Tam Valley boards.
I am not affiliated with them, just a happy customer since 2010.
- Jeff
N
NP2626
Guest
jdetray, Do you have a cost per turnout, figured out? I guess before deciding the direction I should be heading, knowing the cost would be helpful.
jdetray
Well-Known Member
Here are some costs based on components from Tam Valley Depot, plus other items purchased separately. This is for turnouts that are not controlled by DCC. Works with both DCC and DC layouts.
Tam Valley Octopus III Servo Controller (controls 8 turnouts)
$5.00 per turnout
SG90 Servo (from eBay)
$2.00 per turnout
Note: The servos are quite small (1.25" wide x 0.5" deep x 1.125" tall) and will fit in places that traditional switch machines won't.
Tam Valley Fascia Controller (a pushbutton with indicator LEDs)
$4.50 per turnout
Tam Valley SwitchWright Servo Bracket
$5.35 per turnout (more expensive than the servos!)
Total = $16.85 per turnout
You can save money by making your own servo mountings (which I did) and even your own fascia controllers (which I did not).
Options
Tam Valley Remote Relay (if desired for frog polarity switching and additional LED indicators)
$4.00 per turnout
Tam Valley Remote Aligner for Octopus III
Not required but makes servo alignment easier.
Just one of these is needed for all of your Octopus IIIs.
$12.00
Power Supply
Tam Valley sells 12V power supplies, but you can use your own 5.0-24 volt DC power supply.
- Jeff
Tam Valley Octopus III Servo Controller (controls 8 turnouts)
$5.00 per turnout
SG90 Servo (from eBay)
$2.00 per turnout
Note: The servos are quite small (1.25" wide x 0.5" deep x 1.125" tall) and will fit in places that traditional switch machines won't.
Tam Valley Fascia Controller (a pushbutton with indicator LEDs)
$4.50 per turnout
Tam Valley SwitchWright Servo Bracket
$5.35 per turnout (more expensive than the servos!)
Total = $16.85 per turnout
You can save money by making your own servo mountings (which I did) and even your own fascia controllers (which I did not).
Options
Tam Valley Remote Relay (if desired for frog polarity switching and additional LED indicators)
$4.00 per turnout
Tam Valley Remote Aligner for Octopus III
Not required but makes servo alignment easier.
Just one of these is needed for all of your Octopus IIIs.
$12.00
Power Supply
Tam Valley sells 12V power supplies, but you can use your own 5.0-24 volt DC power supply.
- Jeff
N
NP2626
Guest
Thanks Jeff!
railBuilderDhd
Active Member
Thanks guys for the info. I have been looking at Tam Valley and what they offer and I must say it's a good option. I may go that way for sure. I too will build my own mounting brackets and fascia controllers.
The reason I'm trying to do all myself is my desire to learn this and figure how to use these controller boards for more then the layout switches. I'm one of those in the hobby that like to do what I can myself to just do it and learn about these things.
Dave
The reason I'm trying to do all myself is my desire to learn this and figure how to use these controller boards for more then the layout switches. I'm one of those in the hobby that like to do what I can myself to just do it and learn about these things.
Dave
railBuilderDhd
Active Member
BTW I also have extra USB cable that Kevin mentioned are needed for programming. If anyone needs one let me know as well. I can send out a few.
Dave
Dave
jdetray
Well-Known Member
Servo Mounting and Linkage
There are several ways to mount the servos and actuate the turnouts. Since I had already laid my track before I decided to use servos for turnout control, mine are all mounted to the underside of the plywood subroadbed like this:
I attached the servos to the plywood with hot glue. They are further secured with a strap made from strip styrene. Though they are not shown in the photo above, I also added a small wood screw to either end of the styrene strip for additional security.
A nice feature of the servos is that they are tiny. They protrude below the subroadbed less than an inch, including the length of the servo arm, so they fit in very tight locations where there might not be enough clearance for a Tortoise or a Blue Point.
A 1/16" diameter brass tube runs from the underside of the layout, through the subroadbed, to a location near the throwbar. A length of music wire is inserted into the brass tubing and bent to fit into the throwbar and into the servo arm. Here is the throwbar linkage on an Atlas N-scale Code 55 #7 turnout:
I'm using 1/16" brass tubing with an inside diameter of 0.035". This is a standard item at most hobby shops. The music wire is 0.032" diameter, again a standard item at hobby shops. The music wire moves freely in the brass tubing.
You need a fine tooth razor saw to cut the brass tubing. Even so, you have to de-burr the hole to allow the music wire to slip into the tubing. I use the pointy end of an old #11 Xacto blade to clean up the edges of the hole.
I have used this mounting method and linkage through as much as 6 inches of scenery, and it works great. Some people do not like the look of the tubing and music wire near the throwbar, but with some scenery materials around it, I find it acceptable. I might glue some "underbrush" to the music wire to further hide it.
- Jeff
There are several ways to mount the servos and actuate the turnouts. Since I had already laid my track before I decided to use servos for turnout control, mine are all mounted to the underside of the plywood subroadbed like this:
I attached the servos to the plywood with hot glue. They are further secured with a strap made from strip styrene. Though they are not shown in the photo above, I also added a small wood screw to either end of the styrene strip for additional security.
A nice feature of the servos is that they are tiny. They protrude below the subroadbed less than an inch, including the length of the servo arm, so they fit in very tight locations where there might not be enough clearance for a Tortoise or a Blue Point.
A 1/16" diameter brass tube runs from the underside of the layout, through the subroadbed, to a location near the throwbar. A length of music wire is inserted into the brass tubing and bent to fit into the throwbar and into the servo arm. Here is the throwbar linkage on an Atlas N-scale Code 55 #7 turnout:
I'm using 1/16" brass tubing with an inside diameter of 0.035". This is a standard item at most hobby shops. The music wire is 0.032" diameter, again a standard item at hobby shops. The music wire moves freely in the brass tubing.
You need a fine tooth razor saw to cut the brass tubing. Even so, you have to de-burr the hole to allow the music wire to slip into the tubing. I use the pointy end of an old #11 Xacto blade to clean up the edges of the hole.
I have used this mounting method and linkage through as much as 6 inches of scenery, and it works great. Some people do not like the look of the tubing and music wire near the throwbar, but with some scenery materials around it, I find it acceptable. I might glue some "underbrush" to the music wire to further hide it.
- Jeff
