Tortoise Installations


D

Dan Watkins

Member
Okay gang, I'm in the process of putting in all new Tortoise switch machines and new turnouts. I have a good understanding of the wiring needed (going single DC with DPDT switches and I am wiring the frogs for power) and the installation seems pretty straight forward. I am needing to put in longer throw rods in some areas because of the thickness of my bench work and roadbed.

Before I go much further, are there any tips some of you pros have when it comes to installing these units?

As I said, I'm feeling pretty comfortable with how things are going but there's this nagging feeling that I'm going to find out later that there are some tried and true tricks to working with these things which aren't in the directions.

Dan
 
Hi Dan: I've installed over 60 tortii on my layout. I've replaced all the .025" wires provided with .032" music wire. This will work with thicker road bed. You do need to drill the hole in the actuating arm a little larger than the new wire. I used a chuck with the appropriate drill bit and drilled them by hand. Here's a tip for installing the wires if you don't have a helper.

P1010343.jpg


The wires go down from the top, then all you have to do under the layout is stick the wire through the fulcrum and install in the actuator arm. Oh, and that's a hemostat in the photo.
 
Thanks,
I've been pre-bending the wires according to the directions and then inserting them from below up through the hole in the turnout. Definitely the most challenging part of the process especially if you can't get close enough to the turnout to see what you are doing. Do you find the rods don't have to be bent exactly as the directions indicate?
I've been using the .032 wire for the longer rods but the ones that came with the motors where the bench work and roadbed are an 1' or less thick. would you recommend just using the .032 everywhere?
 
Hi Dan: Yes, I would recommend pre bending the wires. And yes, over time the .025 wires tend to get weaker. And I feel your pain in trying to install the wires from below, esp. with bi-focals. One other thing I do, when you have the mounting holes marked, (I use an awl), I use self tapping screws and run them into the marked holes before actually mounting the Tortoise. I leave 2 of them in on one side, then mount the tortoise, the two already in will usually hold it in place, then install the other 2 and snug all 4 up.
 
I will switch over to using the .032 wires all the way around. Easier to do it now than having to do it later. Yes, bifocals are a pain when trying to do this kind of thing (take note all you young guys thinking about N scale - someday you'll be our age).

I've already discovered the trick of putting two of the mounting screws in and then using those to hold the machine in place while I set in the third and then fourth one.

Sounds like I'm doing everything pretty much as you do (with the exception of using .032 wire exclusively). I've found that once I have the wire threaded, an alligator clamp holds it nicely from above until it's permanently secured below.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Dan
 
Grand, that is a grand idea about inserting the wire from the top. Dang, wonder why I never thought about that, considering the pain in the neck from below. Also, I found out a few years ago by accident that 0.032 wire is much better.

Now fellows don't scarf a this yet; not until you at least try it:
About 5 years ago I experimented with using Industrial Strength Velcro for mounting my Tortoises, even posted the idea on Trains.com. This was about 2 years before someone took the idea an got it published in MR magazine. All of them, about 50 or so, are still in position and have never needed adjusting.

The one thing that you may encounter is Velcro glue side doesn't like an irregular (unpainted) surface and may come loose if not given a day or so to for the glue to cure. To solve this, use a staple gun in the corners of the Velcro pad. (I have also used Super Glue in the corners with success)

To mount the Tortoise, just lift into the approximate alignment, but do not push in. You are still able to pull back a little on the Velcro and turn for final adjustment. At this point, press firmly in place. HINT: Do not cut the actuator wire...leave it long. This will keep it from coming out of the hole when you are aligning the Tortoise. It does work and no more fiddling with tiny screws or worrying with pre-marked holes that are probably off.:)
 
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Wayne, I buy the Velcro at Lowes and it has "Industrial Strength" marked on package. You can buy it in packages of short 6" lengths or a roll. I believe the difference in industrial and regular is the hooks are longer and the fuzz is thicker. On the package it mentions hanging up tools, etc., so I thought, "...a Tortoise only weighs a couple of ounces why not give it a try". It worked.

Use a sharp hobby knife to cut to the size of the Tortoise bottom. The glue is gooey, so don't use scissors or it will yuk them up. :D
 
The directions for mounting the Tortoise actually describe an alternate method of using double sided tape and silicone caulk. Sounds a little time intensive and they don't guarantee the long term effectiveness of this method. Sounds like the velcro would be fairly quick and have the added value of being able to reposition the unit as needed.
The directions do state that using the tape/caulk method helps in the noise reduction. Are the Tortoises somewhat noisy (I haven't operated any of them yet)? Is it motor noise or noise transmitted through the bench work? Would a thin cushion of something like cork or felt between the motor and the plywood they are attached to help at all?
 
I really haven't noticed anything but a soft hum with my Torti but I can imagine they's make some noise if they weren't well anchored. I've uses the industrial strength Velco as Rex and it holds the mounting very securely. If you give the glue time to set up, you can just have the machine held in place at a corner while you adjust things and then press it home. The downside is that it's nearly impossible to get the machine off the Velco without a fair bit of twisting and turning, which can bend the actuator wire. I've only had to do this once, when relocating a switch, but I was surprised how strong that stuff really is.
 
Dan, the only noise you have from a Tortoise is a dull whirling sound. Not enough to matter when you consider all the racket from trains. Noise is a part of railroading: model or prototype. Jeeze, you should hear all my sound units going. :)

Jim, they are tough to totally remove from the Velcro, but taking it a corner at a time and getting a finger in there will do it. Never bent an actuator wire, but it is easy enough to remove it first considering your taking the thing completely off. ;)
 
Good to hear noise isn't an issue. I've seen enough references to it to have become a little concerned. Can't be too much worse than the loud snap my old Atlas switches made.
DW


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
 
Does the Tortoise machine have enough power to move large scale #4 and #6 turnouts? I have a couple of turnouts on my indoor layout that are somewhat hard to reach. thought I might try a Tortoise.
 
RexHea said:
Wayne, I buy the Velcro at Lowes and it has "Industrial Strength" marked on package. You can buy it in packages of short 6" lengths or a roll. I believe the difference in industrial and regular is the hooks are longer and the fuzz is thicker. On the package it mentions hanging up tools, etc., so I thought, "...a Tortoise only weighs a couple of ounces why not give it a try". It worked.

Use a sharp hobby knife to cut to the size of the Tortoise bottom. The glue is gooey, so don't use scissors or it will yuk them up. :D
Click to expand...

I will give the velcro a shot on phase two. We have one section left of the Central Midland to do. The main lines and yard have all of the motors installed and everything is running fine along with the control panel. When we started this it was Atlas under layout switches which we disliked immediately so we switched to Tortoise. What a job on my back. But its done now. Better planning next time.
Thanks for the help.
Wayne
 
Wayne,

Your comment about your back brought to mind something I said to my dear wife yesterday. I literally spent the entire day under my layout pulling out old turnouts and installing new ones along with the Tortoise switch machines.

She came downstairs for a minute (I think to see if I was still alive), and was standing in the doorway of my layout room when she said, "Watch your head", as I was coming up from underneath the layout. As if I needed a reminder. I've taken to often wearing an old plastic hardhat (the smaller, light weight ones I wore back in my college days working in a cannery) when working below. Being follicley challenged, I don't have any natural protection against the corners of my bench work. Not that a head of hair would help all THAT much (is that "sour grapes"?).

I also told her that I was fortunate I didn't have hip or knee issues (yet) or I couldn't be doing that kind of thing. Or, at least it would take a lot longer and be much more difficult and painful. She said I'd better get it all done correctly now while I was still able to do it "fairly easily". I told that was the plan.

DW

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
 
Dan, I wish I could tell you an easy way to work under a layout but my back hurts after a few hours too. I knew a guy who had a really bad back that rigged up a mechanics creeper with a padded top that would extend up to four feet. He made it using parts from to of those folding step stools. I'm way too clumsy to do the same thing and he has gone to that big layout in the sky or I could provide you with some drawings.
 
Jim,
It's not really all that bad yet. The room is fully carpeted (not by choice - it was that way when we moved here) so crawling around on it isn't too bad. It's mainly the constant up and down when I'm doing this kind of work. Hopefully, it will be the last major overhaul in my lifetime. May be the occasional minor repairs but nothing like this ever again.
Dan
 
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