This is horrible.


The signals went off twenty seconds BEFORE the accident. I think longer wait times before the train actually arrives at the crossing would only tend to encourage impatient drivers to go around crossing gates or try to beat the train when the lights activate.
 
In my opinion not only is the truck driver at fault, but so are the organizers of the parade. They should have informed the RR that this grade crossing was going to be part of the parade route so that they (the RR) could take measures to either stop traffic during that time or reroute it.

Dan
 
FCL2117 ... Your dad got it right. My dad taught me to NEVER rely on the other driver to do the right thing. Assume he is an idiot and you will rarely be disappointed.
 
QUOTE: "sirens from the firetrucks and police cars escorting the parade drowned out the train horn."

Deaf people are allowed to drive. The same issue would apply. So I wouldn't give that as an escape for any driver. If you don't feel a bit nervous everytime you're crossing a RR track you are missing a Darwinistic edge.
 
Rule #1 (by law) the train ALWAYS has the right of way, NO EXCEPTIONS. The government realized almost 100 years ago that trains can't stop and so gave them the right of way. A loaded freight train will take a mile or more to stop.......can you see a car on the tracks from a mile away? And would you expect it to still be sitting on the tracks when you get there? The engineer would literally have to start stopping before he could even positively identify a problem. Obviously lower speeds would help, but the law was made when railroads were the lifeblood of the country and getting the loads from point A to point B was a high priority, so you didn't slow the trains. And people took responsibility for their actions back then. I mean how smart do you have to be to not park a parade float on the railroad tracks? And when the gates came down, why would you just sit there? The gates will break away, and although I didn't see much video, 99% of crossings have been engineered to be wide open for visibility, which also gives escape routes. I'm sure UP will see lawsuits out of this, but they did everything right, and legally the fault is with the float driver. but he's probably some average joe, and UP has deep pockets, so they'll be the target. Tragic incident.......not accident....an accident is something you can't avoid, which isn't the case here.
 
Did the New York Times mention how many cars - or how many tons - the train was? If they did their job they could have looked up (or asked the AAR or DOT) the stopping distance needed on that figure at the speed of the train. If the train had been doing 40-mph I bet the outcome would have been the same.

Most people apparently have no clue. This is a "teachable moment" for the public -- to use a stupid new-age cliché. Trains need a number of seconds for the air-drop to reach the back of the train and begin the braking. It isn't like driving a car. It is no different than cutting in front of an aircraft carrier in your yacht.
 
Burlington Bob...

That's a good point about informing the RR. The Santa Fe used to accommodate the Rose Parade before the tracks were torn up.

But I pin that on the city and their permit granting process. The average person setting up a parade wouldn't even notice the tracks -- or make the mental connection. But the geniuses in city government are paid (handsomely too) to be cognizant of these things.
 
Unfortunately in this case I'm not sure informing the railroad or better planning of the parade route would have helped.......maybe. But no amount of planning can overcome stupidity. Maybe make all the drivers take an Operation Lifesaver Course? Very few people understand the physics involved in any of this.......one of my favorite analogies (I used to do OLS presentations to schools) was that your car hitting a pop can is the same weight ratio as a train hitting your car....not much resistance. Or you are a golf ball and the train is the club......you are going to get hit and hit HARD. If you survive getting hit by a train you are VERY lucky. And you don't usually die from external injuries....it's usually internal injuries caused by the acceleration your body goes thru from the impact. Your internal organs all pretty much "float" inside you and when your body accelerates in some direction, they don't follow along too well......until they hit one of the outer walls. By then they may not be attached anymore or be bruised or otherwise damaged. The stuff I learned to teach the course certainly make me think everytime I approach a grade crossing. So maybe the driver wasn't stupid....maybe he just didn't understand the situation he was creating.....but he certainly didn't display much common sense.
 
One of the points I did not see, (if it was I apologize) but this 5 mile section of track was also a quiet zone. Of course after seeing a fouled track the horn was sounded but not having horns could have made the people in that area tone out the trains.

Just my thought.
 
I think in the end, it will come down to error on the part of the driver towing the float, but as has been reported there seems to have been a lot of noise and flashing light distraction that may have drowned both of those out.

Still doesn't excuse the basic safety rule at a crossing, controlled or otherwise. If as Kevin has mentioned this is a "quiet" section, is it US practice to use the sort of sound warning that is used here in built up areas i.e. a lower pitched but quite penetrating alarm that starts well before the arms are activated. This could probably be overcome if there were sirens etc blaring at the same time.

I'm sure that the inquiry finding will be human error, but with extenuating circumstances with a recommendation that in future, crossing marshalls will have to be appointed to control the parade.
 
It comes down to this folks. The driver of the Semi broke at least two laws (at least here in NYS I know they are on the books).

1. It is against the law to stop a vehicle on the RR tracks, ever, under any circumstances!

2. It is against the law to proceed across the tracks unless you have a full room available and off the ROW to hold your vehicle on the other side of the tracks.

The other two violations also mean the driver is trespassing.

The driver of the Semi is supposedly a professional driver and has been trained with that knowledge, but just either ignored it or figured the parade would keep moving and got caught. That does not relieve him or her of the legal responsibility for the accident. He should be charged with Criminally Negligent Homicide. Period! Anything else is very irrelevant to the case (even those items that should have but may not have been done like having RR Police or firemen protecting the crossing, etc.)

A couple years ago I turned in an ambulance crew that pulled up behind me and stopped on the tracks at a RR crossing here in town. I blew a fuse, so to speak and sent an email to the company identifying the ambulance! The crew confessed to it (they could have been fired on the spot). I was thanked by the president of the Ambulance co. who told me the crew knew better and was breaking not only NYS law, but also their internal policies. They (all 4 people in the crew) ended up with a letter of reprimand in their permanent files, and had to retake all their driver safety training without pay, before they could work on crew again.
 
I am agreeing not only with the truck driver being responsible, but also that the city or parade officials should have informed the UP about it. Seriously, can you think of any reason why the UP and/or Amtrak would not issue slow orders for that section of line if they had been in formed? Duh!

But this comes as part of my own experience. I've been in a parade that did have to stop for a train once (fortunately, no accident here). It happened to be a pair of UP loco's heading to help out a stalled train so they were going well under the speed limit. Scared the bejeezus out of all of us though, as my marching band was almost on the track.
 
tootnkumin said:
If as Kevin has mentioned this is a "quiet" section, is it US practice to use the sort of sound warning that is used here in built up areas i.e. a lower pitched but quite penetrating alarm that starts well before the arms are activated. This could probably be overcome if there were sirens etc blaring at the same time.
Click to expand...
In many towns, "quiet" means "quiet". No horns, sirens, or anything that will disturb the local fauna. Most of those places, however, do have to have something that is effective at keeping drivers off the tracks when a train is about to roll through. Also, the rules of the railroads allow the use of horns in an emergency, local muckymucks be damned.
 
Horns or no horns. Noise makers are merely an enhancement. So many people that drive cannot hear at all, or with impairment, that the horn issue seems secondary to me. The safety depends on vision and people following rules. And ignorance of the law is "no excuse". Nevertheless, some sleazy lawyers are poised to make a haystack of money on this I am sure.
 
dispatcher812 said:
One of the points I did not see, (if it was I apologize) but this 5 mile section of track was also a quiet zone. Of course after seeing a fouled track the horn was sounded but not having horns could have made the people in that area tone out the trains.

Just my thought.
Click to expand...
If this was a "quiet zone", why would the parade not have to comply with that as well? after learning this little tid bit, it sounds like the quiet zone thing is more so to stick it to the big business guys. Yeah, I understand the desire for a quiet community, but if ya want it quiet then make the law applicable to all.
 
Four-Quadrant Gate Systems - $300,000 to $500,000

I was wondering why CN won't put gates in at the Highway 32 crossing here in MS even though the crosses are stacking up like chord wood. A half mill for gates and the hardware to operate them? I assumed it was like ten grand or something. You learn something new every day.
 
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By bradyracing;

I was wondering why CN won't put gates in at the Highway 32 crossing here in MS even though the crosses are stacking up like chord wood.
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I doubt that CN is the reason for a failure to have updated crossing warning systems in place. Note that there is a requirement for local government to reimburse the railroad for the installation costs of a new system. I would be led to believe that a lack of funds from the responsible governing body is probably a driving factor.
 
Burlington Bob said:
By bradyracing;



I doubt that CN is the reason for a failure to have updated crossing warning systems in place. Note that there is a requirement for local government to reimburse the railroad for the installation costs of a new system. I would be led to believe that a lack of funds from the responsible governing body is probably a driving factor.
Click to expand...

I remember a few years ago, a local county petitioned the STB to abandon a section of railroad so they wouldn't have to pay for a new crossing. The Surf Board told them they were on crack, they didn't own the railroad, and to put the crossing in.
 
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