Third times a charm - W&J


It looks like you have a well thought out track plan and a plan on how to operate it. It seems like each locomotive will have a specific purpose and tend to stay its own area so DC wiring should not be as complicated as if all locos were to run all over the layout. That would pretty much demand dcc. Real railroads operate the same trains over the same route and switch the same customers over and over and over again. Operating variety is not generally what railroads want. An efficient operating routine is what they want.

Once you build your layout, it'll operate the same way 30 years from now, if that appeals to you. As you stated, if you expand the layout or the way it operates, you may want to take a harder look at DCC.
 
Do what you feel comfortable with, from a control standpoint, no matter what anyone tells you. If something goes wrong, or something unexpected happens from an electrical control standpoint, you want to be able to diagnose the problem yourself. If your 'friend' moves who did all the wiring, will you be able to keep the trains running? Always very important in my book.

Having said that, if I were just getting into the hobby seriously, I might (probably would) go with DCC. As I have a large number of locos, it would be a huge expense to convert 40 of them to DCC. Also, judging by past experience with some model railroad electronics, they (the decoders) are not very fault tolerant, unlike with analog DC cab control. I don't want to be replacing $50 decoders more than 2-3 times, due to derailments or picking a switch.

On a small layout such as yours, with old fashion cab control, and no reversing loops, with 4 blocks; there aren't going to be that many wires to run. You'll still have to run wires with DCC to, which with all the feeders some people suggest you use, may end up being more wire than with DC. DCC does have the features that cab control doesn't, but if you're not going to be buying a loco a month, and expanding the layout greatly, or rebuilding signicantly in the future, good old DC cab control I'd argue could make sense. DC cab control will give you the possibility to use 2 throttles for any block, without to much complication.

Your trackplan looks/seem interesting. Stein always has some valid points in my experience. Best of luck with your decisions. I agree the elevator would block the reach into the corner.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
NSHO said:
I'm going to stick with DC. After some thought, I'm scrapping the old Tyco and will only use the MRC cab for simplicity. I will however, wire 4 blocks of operation. Each block will be on an on/off switch.
Click to expand...

Mmm - the standard way of doing it would be:

1) Run three wires almost all around the layout.
Call them "common ground", "Cab A bus", "Cab B bus"

Connect ground both cabs to common ground.
Connect Cab A plus to Cab A bus
Connect Cab B plus to Cab B bus

2) Each control zone on the layout must be electrically isolated from each other (i.e gaps cut in track, or plastic joiners)

3) For each zone, you have a three way electrical switch (a center-off switch). The switch will have three terminals where you can fasten wires - one output, two inputs.

When you turn the electrical switch one way, you connect input A to output, when you connect it the other way you connect input B to the output. Center the electrical switch, and nothing is connected to the output.

Pick a switch rated for at least the current you will be passing through it - 2 amp, 5 amp, whatever.

4) Within each zone, you have feeds from common ground to one side of the rails (e.g. the "furthest from aisle" rail on each track that gets a feed)

5) Within each zone, you have have a wire called "Zone cab bus", which gets fed from the selector switch (see point 3). Drop feeds from this zone bus to the other rail side (e.g "closest to aisle rail).

6) If you want to have tracks which you can park engines in while another engine is moving in that zone, you cut the plus side of that rail, and have an extra on/off switch that either feeds the rail in the isolated section from the Zone cab bus, or don't connect it to anything.

7) Dealing with facing turnouts (as in a double ended siding) is the same for DCC and DC. Feeding the frogs of turnouts is the same for DCC and DC (except that DCC is more sensitive).

So it is absolutely doable to wire a layout like this for cab control without having an enormous amount of wiring.

Where DCC shines is when you have several locomotives within the same zone (like at the yard). With DCC, you decide which locomotive will move. With DC, you change the voltage on the tracks, and any locomotives within that group of tracks will move at the same time.

Smile,
Stein
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks all for the suggestions and comments. After reading the most recent DC thread here on the forum, there are valid points for both DC and DCC. What stands out the most for myself and my decision to operate DC (for now) is the size of the layout and only one operator. Running two engines tail to tail is appealing, love the look of it, but my layout just isn't big enough for the effect. If I wanted the look, I could buy a dummy engine :) The yard isn't big enough to operate two engines.

So now for another question. I'll be pulling the track up soon and installing the cork roadbed. At this time, should I cover the pink sub-roadbed? I've got spacing where the pieces of foam were brought together. Some of the foam isn't level with other pieces. For the spacing, I was just thinking of paintable caulk. The unevenness will be sanded down or cut out.

What do I cover with? I would like to paint the surface with an earth tone or two depending on where the track is running. Does this seem right? Use just plain latex interior paint? Prime? At some point the "ground will be covered with the appropriate foliage, road, ballast, dirt, etc.. Is sub-roadbed prep necessary?
 
NSHO said:
Thanks all for the suggestions and comments. After reading the most recent DC thread here on the forum, there are valid points for both DC and DCC. What stands out the most for myself and my decision to operate DC (for now) is the size of the layout and only one operator. Running two engines tail to tail is appealing, love the look of it, but my layout just isn't big enough for the effect. If I wanted the look, I could buy a dummy engine :) The yard isn't big enough to operate two engines.

So now for another question. I'll be pulling the track up soon and installing the cork roadbed. At this time, should I cover the pink sub-roadbed? I've got spacing where the pieces of foam were brought together. Some of the foam isn't level with other pieces. For the spacing, I was just thinking of paintable caulk. The unevenness will be sanded down or cut out.

What do I cover with? I would like to paint the surface with an earth tone or two depending on where the track is running. Does this seem right? Use just plain latex interior paint? Prime? At some point the "ground will be covered with the appropriate foliage, road, ballast, dirt, etc.. Is sub-roadbed prep necessary?
Click to expand...

A few points:

I know you're just talkin', but manufacturers' don't make dummy engines anymore. Gone are the days when Athearn used to provide the effect you want by making gutless locomotives for about half the price of powered ones. Or, you can simply take a powered locomotive and disconnect the motor from the trucks by removing the driveshafts. And if you don't want the lights to shine, disconnect the wires from the circuit board. Pretty simple, and easily restorable to a powered unit. You don't really even need to have the second engine unpowered. If they are the same model engine, they will have the same innards and run coupled together just fine.

I understand your comment about effect. IMO, in HO scale, a train has to be at least 12 cars long for a multiple unit consist of locomotives to look right. Maybe 10 cars for 2 short switchers. Its a forced effort, for whatever reason, if the train is shorter. I agree, your layout is too small for multiple unit consists to look right.

Spacing? Do you mean a veritcal space in between the two foam pieces or a horizontal space between the roadbed and foam caused by unevenness? The cork roadbed should cruise over a vertical gap of 1/4 inch or less just fine. For wider gaps, a wooden shim or waste foam cut to form would be best. Yes, rasp-file or heavy sand the uneveness. If the unevenness is caused by uneven benchwork, remedy that if you can.

No need to paint, but giving it an entire coat of earth tone brown helps with future scenicking and might encourage you to work on the layout more since you won't be staring at the gaudy pink. Obviously, if you have pencil lines marking your track, don't paint over them, ha.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What did I do wrong???

Quick update and concern. I've purchased both a rolled cork sheet and WS cork roadbed from LHS. The WS cork roadbed is so much nicer to work with and lay down. It was reasonably inexpensive. Paid 14.99 for 24" x 48" sheet of cork and 15.99 for 30' of WS cork roadbed. So, I used the WS for the mainline and will be using the other for some sidings and spurs. There's a height difference of about 1/16".

Pulled the main line up after marking centers, applied a foam friendly caulk (used to attach the 1" foam to the MDF) and laid the cork roadbed, easy install. Now my problem, to adhere the track to the cork roadbed, I took the advice of others on this forum and used latex caulk. Please listen to the sound difference going from straight cork to caulk on cork. You need sound turned up. Forgive the poor production quality.

[YOUTUBE]dAxdh6wlIIk[/YOUTUBE]

IT'S VERY NOISY!!! The caulking is a very thin layer which was smoothed to hardly nothing with a straight razor. Should I not have went the entire length of track? Should the caulk be applied in quarter size "blobs" every 6-12" inches? If caulk enhances the sound of metal wheels on the track this much, I'm sticking with no adhesion and just let the ballast hold everything in place.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
update

Since I didn't get any advice, criticism or comments in re to my noise issue, I took it upon myself to not use latex caulk as a track to roadbed adhesive and just spot glue with Elmers every 10-12". I'm hoping when I cover with ballast and glue it in to place, that'll help keep the track stationary.

So last night, after "struggling" with the DC vs DCC conundrum, I clicked Check Out at ModelTrainStuff and purchased a Digitrax Zephyr and 2 decoders for my Athearn GP's. In addition to the electronics, I purchased two different colors of WS fine ballast and a couple of spray cans of enamel paint for the track. Also got some Dullcote for future use.

Yesterday I also stopped in at Lowes and got some 14g solid (red and white) wire for the bus and 20g solid (red and white) for the feeders.

The track workers and engineers are going to be busy for the next week or two.

I'll post updates and pictures along the way.
 
Awesome.

I knew dcc would win you over, you will be happy with going dcc once you get your trains rolling... i prefer modeltrainstuff also

Cant wait to see updates with your layout
 
You must log in or register to reply here.



Back
Top