Thinking about getting serious W/ model RR


Davejb

Davejb

Member
Hey guys, been lurking for a bit, reading posts, getting a look at what's new in the hobby, DCC looks cool but expensive!

Anywho, I've never built a layout, and just dabled a little with HO. I think I want to get back into the hobby, but due to space limitations will likely have to go N. What kind of space would I need for a layout I can enjoy and build up but be able to take down when I move? The stairway up to my 3rd floor won't even take a 4x8 sheet of plywood so I'm at a loss how I can make a layout that I can build up, but be able to get it out if I need to.

I also have no idea what to model? No clue what engines I would want, what era, etc. How do you guys decide what to model? I'm rather excited about getting serious, I just have no clue where to begin.
 
Davejb said:
Hey guys, been lurking for a bit, reading posts, getting a look at what's new in the hobby, DCC looks cool but expensive!

Anywho, I've never built a layout, and just dabled a little with HO. I think I want to get back into the hobby, but due to space limitations will likely have to go N. What kind of space would I need for a layout I can enjoy and build up but be able to take down when I move? The stairway up to my 3rd floor won't even take a 4x8 sheet of plywood so I'm at a loss how I can make a layout that I can build up, but be able to get it out if I need to.

I also have no idea what to model? No clue what engines I would want, what era, etc. How do you guys decide what to model? I'm rather excited about getting serious, I just have no clue where to begin.
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You said you cant get a 4x8 up the stairs, but does this mean you dont hae room for a layout as well cause you can cut up a 4x8 plywood sheet and then simply reattach it through bracing later on to get it upstairs.

You can model anything you want to, it all depends on the time, space and funds you have for it. Freelance, Proto-Freelanced, Prototypical, its your world, do whatever youd like in it, the amount of realism is totally up to you. Most people decide to model a specific era, location, railroad, or a mix of the three, like i said before, its whatever you want that makes you happy.

When you start planning i highly suggest you start with DCC, however others will tell you to go standard DC for awhile, everyone has their own opinions.

You mentioned youve never built a layout and only dipped your feet in the water with HO, what exactly do you mean by this? You bought a train set or some cars and some track? Im just trying to figure out exactly how far youve stepped into the hobby.
 
Hi Dave, from one to another!
I've been in the hobby for a long time and what I would suggest is that you don't try to put everything on a single 4'x 8' sheet of plywood but rather cut the sheet either lengthwise or width wise and have your track plad so it basically divides at or near the edge so you can slide them together on some bench work of one type or another. Just figure your maxium size to easily get down from the area and build each module smaller.
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You might even be able to link three modules that are say 30" wide and 4 to 6' long together and possibly even have an L shaped layout? This might also allow you to run HO as opposed to N. You will need porobably a 48x48" end loop if you want continuous running but again if built sepoerately each module could be easily moved.

Hope that helps to start with.
 
Thanks for the responses guys! The room is quite large and completely finished, but I don't want to take up too much room as it doubles as a storage area and guest sleeping area, I figured with N I could get the most amount of scale track in a given space. My HO setup was just track on a sheet of plywood, never got to detailing or terrain.

The modular layout makes sense, I found a bunch of 3 x 6 layouts for N scale, both continuous and point to point (haven't decided on a plan yet, but I think I may want both). Is it possible to start with DC and convert to DCC as money allows? Are there drawbacks to N vs HO?
 
There are many pros and cons between HO and N scales, N scale is appx half the size of HO, which is small to begin with, so if youve got good eyes, steady hands, patience, go with N scale. HO scale is as already stated larger than N scales and theres alittle more available in HO than in N.

Yes you can switch from DC to DCC, but id imagine would be difficult to switch once you have all of the elctrical blocks down for DC, If you use a straight connector from the DC controller to the tracks, than youll be fine, just disconnect the wire and your set to convert to DCC, after you buy the control system. Most DCC systems have a thing for DC locomotives, but not all of them do, which is one of the reasons why i reccomend going DCC first, you dont have to worry about upgrading/replacing your locomotives and you dont have to learn a new system after learning to operate DC. Someone please feel free to correct me, im not sure how accurate i am on this one so ill be the first one to admit my mistake.
 
I to am new to this wonderful hobby. Im building a HO scale layout for my son in his bedroom. Its only 41 inchs by about 7 feet long. But it will do. I think this question I have will fit well on this thread.

Do some powers supplys / throttles provide more speed then others? The One I have that came with the starter set isnt bad. But I would like to know, if I would be able to make the trains a little faster if I wanted to?
 
Welcome aboard. It's common for beginners to build a first N scale layout on a standard 36"x78" hollow core door. If you search for hollow core door layouts, you'll find a bunch of track plans. It's a pretty easy way to start in N scale, if that's the way you decide to go. As always, I recommend that people got www.nmra.com and read the Beginner's Guide. It will answer a lot of questions that baffle a newcomer.

Rust, almost any power pack provides enough power to run a single engine as fast as it's capable of going. How fast do you want to run a train?
 
UP2CSX said:
Rust, almost any power pack provides enough power to run a single engine as fast as it's capable of going. How fast do you want to run a train?
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I will make a video today to show you how fast the engines I have are going.

I seem to be lossing alot of power on one area of the track. At one turn. I swapped out the the section of track and if still happens. So I thought Id ask.
Thought maybe if I could make them run just a little faster it might not happen.
 
I'm a big fan of modular layouts for a number of reasons.

As far as HO versus N goes, as has been said, there are pros and cons to each. I "cheat" and have HO and N layouts - one is a shelf switcher and the other is on a hollow core door so I can stack them on shelf brackets in an alcove in my den. (Not inclined to finish my basement right now.)

Rust, I'd check your track and wiring before trying to amp up your loco speeds to coast through a dead section.
 
UP2CSX said:
Welcome aboard. It's common for beginners to build a first N scale layout on a standard 36"x78" hollow core door. If you search for hollow core door layouts, you'll find a bunch of track plans. It's a pretty easy way to start in N scale, if that's the way you decide to go. As always, I recommend that people got www.nmra.com and read the Beginner's Guide. It will answer a lot of questions that baffle a newcomer.
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I was at NMRA and never noticed the beginners guide! Also that search for hollow core door layouts hit the jackpot, found a site http://www.cke1st.com/m_train2.htm with many downloadable plans (in atlas RTS format), I think that might be the way to go for my first layout, along with DC as I can't afford DCC equipment.

New question, as a newb would I be better off using Kato Unitrack or Atlas and lay my own roadbed?
 
Dave, if you can afford it, I would go with Kato Unitrack. It's high quality and easy for a beginner to lay out. The switches are much more reliable than Atlas switches and work well out of the box. The Atlas switches always take some tuning, especially in N scale. There is a price penalty, though, so make sure it fits in your budget.

Rust, it sounds like you have a section of track with loose rail joiners, so part of the track isn't getting full voltage. Check all the joints and joiners and make sure they are tight and snug. Once you get to the point of having a permanent layout, you can solder some feeder wires to various portion of the layout so you don't have to depend on rail joiners to transmit current.
 
Two of your questions.

Davejb said:
Thanks for the responses guys! The room is quite large and completely finished, but I don't want to take up too much room as it doubles as a storage area and guest sleeping area, I figured with N I could get the most amount of scale track in a given space. My HO setup was just track on a sheet of plywood, never got to detailing or terrain.

The modular layout makes sense, I found a bunch of 3 x 6 layouts for N scale, both continuous and point to point (haven't decided on a plan yet, but I think I may want both). Is it possible to start with DC and convert to DCC as money allows? Are there drawbacks to N vs HO?
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Dave,
I think you'd be smart to try and stay with a modular type of layout in say the 30" x 6' size and add a L on one end or the other of about the same deminsions. That way your layout is either 30" x 3' on the L part sticking out or 30" x 8.5' total with the other module butted against it or vis-a-visa. Also you can adjust the size of your moduiles to suit the space. Usually a cornor is available and can be utilized without too much problem and you'll want to stay with the 30" width from a standpoint of reach-over. Even then once you get some buildings and scenery on the layot, considering you have it at least lower rib cage height you may still need a step stool to be able to reach over it comfortably, but the added height is sure great for viewing!
*That's the way I designed mine and a small step lader sure comes in handy.*
Now if you need a little more realstate due to a bigger cure you can add a bit more as needed to allow that and still not take up too much space yet get a lot of operation and a layout that is enjoyable to work on!


Davejb said:
I was at NMRA and never noticed the beginners guide! Also that search for hollow core door layouts hit the jackpot, found a site http://www.cke1st.com/m_train2.htm with many downloadable plans (in atlas RTS format), I think that might be the way to go for my first layout, along with DC as I can't afford DCC equipment.

New question, as a newb would I be better off using Kato Unitrack or Atlas and lay my own roadbed?
Click to expand...


As to your first part of this question let me suggest building an open grid type of bench work as it gives you more flexabilty in that you can use 1/4" ply or 3/8's and use the cookie cutter method to bend some of the the boards upward a bit to gain different elevations which adds to the enjoyment of not always having everything level and can also possibly open up some areas that werent available before. For example I have two corners on my layout with unused areas I decided that I can put a spur line to go to a Coal Mine on one and again something on the other, maybe an engine house. Also a rise in elevation really helps to seperate things and give a feeling of distance. :)

By using the cookie cutter method you still retain your overall area by placing risers on the cross pieces to hold the chip board up and it's a pretty simple method to use. That way as an example your back section can be raised a few inches and can also open areas for hidden tracks underneath the raised portion with a piece or two of extra board to attach on the girders below the raised section.

Also by using this method you ensure smooth transitions from the level up to the upper level and same back down again.


Now, as far as having a continuous loop, which I will have on my layout for continuous running when desired, that doesn't mean you still can't opperate your layout like a Point to Point layout if you want too. Remember your the Superintendent and CEO so it's your choice!! ;)

HTH
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi Rust,
I'm not a moderator but it would be better if you had these moved to your own post so as not to interfer with Daves post. Just a thought.

Depending on the track your using it could aslo be a tight spot if the the track is Atlas or possibly another brand and the brad in the middle is nailed down to tightly. What happens when to tight the plastic ties tend to form a shallow V and in doing so change the rail spacing by forming a tight spot or if it happens to be at a joint possibly there is a slight kink the loco has to go through. Also it could be wheel or driver spacing of the loco's wheels. I think I have that problem with my Climax loco.

Check the the first two and hopefully that will correct it.
 
One thing I'll say, just go DCC. I wish I had. I spent slightly less on regular DC than I would have for DCC but now I want DCC. I knew I would from the start but thought I needed to save money. Now I'm just going to have buy a DCC system after spending the money on a DC power source.

If you do go DC then two things I have been told to do and have done. First lay powered track connectors every few feet for when you do go DCC. Way easier than later having to lift that track just to redo connectors or soldering. Second still lay your layout in blocks. This way when you turn on the DCC power you still have the ability to remove power from certain tracks. Helps with trouble shooting and so all your locos don't turn on at once and start making lots of sound. Unless you like that.
 
Rust, it sounds like you have a section of track with loose rail joiners, so part of the track isn't getting full voltage. Check all the joints and joiners and make sure they are tight and snug.

This what I wrote up in message #11. I didn't mention wires. Both read and comprehend this time.
 
402drvr said:
One thing I'll say, just go DCC. I wish I had. I spent slightly less on regular DC than I would have for DCC but now I want DCC. I knew I would from the start but thought I needed to save money. Now I'm just going to have buy a DCC system after spending the money on a DC power source.

If you do go DC then two things I have been told to do and have done. First lay powered track connectors every few feet for when you do go DCC. Way easier than later having to lift that track just to redo connectors or soldering. Second still lay your layout in blocks. This way when you turn on the DCC power you still have the ability to remove power from certain tracks. Helps with trouble shooting and so all your locos don't turn on at once and start making lots of sound. Unless you like that.
Click to expand...

I believe your right, been doing some research and the starter kits aren't bad at all, around $150 for an MRC or Digitrax, so I think I'll just go straight to it, which will prevent me from having to worry about complete block wiring and such as well.
 
Davejb said:
I also have no idea what to model? No clue what engines I would want, what era, etc. How do you guys decide what to model? I'm rather excited about getting serious, I just have no clue where to begin.
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It looks like everyone else has been adressing how to build and how to control it but not this more important question that you asked.

My problem is that I never decided what to model and tried to model everything that I liked. Not a good plan. Deciding what to model is an excercise in trade-offs. One has to look at all the options and then just let some of the less important ones go because obviously you can't model everything.

So for starters - Do you have a preference on locomotives, steam, diesel, electric? That will help narrow down time and location. Steam obviously means older time wise, unless you want to model a tourist line (most boring) or are satisfied with only 1 or 2 used on excursion trains (also not much fun).
Electric locos were generall used in Chicago area, the northeast, and northwest of the US (obviously there are small exceptions).

Is the interest more in running and operating trains or scenery and watching the trains run through it?

Is there a specific railroad or paint scheme that catches ones fancy?

Is there a certain type of scenery that you want to capture - mountains, hills, plains, swamp, citys, small town, a certain industry that could be the foundation for making a model railroad plan?

Do you want passenger trains that are not Amtrak? That would dictate a time period before 1971. Do you like the old Pullman green w/black roof heavyweights. That would move one further back in time.

I knew a person who built a whole layout around a model of a 1953 Corvette. He wanted it to be new, to be with the top down, in a wide open space, racing the trains, wanted the trains to contrast with the car. Start putting those things together and the plan emerged.
 
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