Soldering Track???

[fast_ian]

Hey Ian...

Some soldering tools are not temperature regulated, and sometimes things just go bad. Weller soldering guns for example have no temperature control. They depend on the user to know when to stop pulling the trigger.

I have the unit pictured below. I dunno how it does it, but it certainly responds to the temperature dial. However, even with the "new" tip it seems to have a lot more hysteresis than I remember - Again, no idea why.....

I too have a Weller gun, but it doesn't get anywhere near this stuff! I've seen some *bad* results from folks overheating those things

The soldering station I have use two different systems. My older regulated pencils use a metal that loses its magnetic properties at a certain temp, and this releases a magnet that releases a switch. The tips are all stamped with a number for the degrees where they shut off.

S-w-e-e-t-!

Of course I have cheap irons that have no regulation at all, so they overheat and ruin tips if left on for extended periods of non-use. The only way to make tips last a long time with my unregulated irons is to unplug them.

Yep, given that this is (was!) the tiniest tip I've ever plugged in, I think I toasted it! I honestly didn't think that was possible (?), but it sure seems that way

Cheers,
Ian

 

[TomR]

I use either this type with adjustable temp:

or this one where the changeable tips regulate temp

Tom

 

[Rotorranch]

Keeping the tip clean and tinned is important to the longevity of the tip. My iron stand is the high buck Ungar/Weller stand, which has a tray in the base to hold a damp sponge for cleaning the tip.

To clean a real dirty, corroded tip, try getting a salamoniac block from the hardware store or a plumbing supply house. Heat the iron, and wipe it on the salamoniac block, wipe with a damp sponge, and tin. Repeat as neccesary until you get the tip tinned.

Rotor

 

[jdetray]

If you run feeders to each section of track, is there anything to be gained by also soldering the joiners? I would not think so.

After thousands of solder joints, I can confirm that keeping a damp sponge nearby is essential. Make a habit of wiping the tip on the sponge before and after each solder joint. This greatly helps to keep the tip clean and in good condition.

- Jeff

 

[jackn2mpu]

I use either this type with adjustable temp:

or this one where the changeable tips regulate temp

Tom

Don't know what the first picture was supposed to be (it's blank) but was it a Weller with temp control? For me I use a fairly expensive Metcal unit I had when I was a NASA certified solderer. Temp control by changing the tip cartridge, grounded tip for ESD control, etc. I use a tip with about a .25 inch flat screwdriver end to it on HO track. Multicore solder so no flux needed. With clean rail (Atlas code 83) and joints I get full flow with no solder balling up. And no tie melt either. Part of the secret to no tie melt is dwell time of solder tip on what's being soldered rather than heat. I typically use a 700 degree tip. Just for grins a few times I used an old Weller with an 800 degree tip I keep around for soldering up PL259's to solder some track joints - no melt at all. Just touch the tip to rail along with the solder and in 5 to 6 seconds you've got a good joint.

I don't crimp joiners, just let them float. As far as adding wire feeders I solder them to the bottom of rail joiners so they hide better when ballasted.

OT but interesting tidbit: the Metcal unit I have uses a high frequency power supply to provide tip heat. The frequency? Right in the middle of the 20 meter band!

Oh yeah I forgot something - tip survival. Regularly wipe your tip across a wet sponge after soldering something and re-tin the tip with solder before putting the soldering handpiece down or going on to the next joint. This will help prolong your tips. And NEVER shut your soldering station down without tinning the tip - never leave a tip bare. Helps stave off oxidation.

 

[RexHea]

Jeeze fellows, you are not trying to solder tiny electronics to a PC board. A simple 30-35 watt iron (Ungar) is ideal. There are no mysteries or complex operations about soldering...just practice.

Tip life will be extended considerably, if you always put it back into a proper holder after each use. The heat element should rest against the holder in a way to dissipate the heat away from the tip.

Never file tips! All the tips are now plated and filing will remove this. They are plated to have even heat across the tip and the plating eliminates the need for "tinning". They do not need any maintenance other than wiping with a a damp cloth or sponge. Someone asked about the crud: it's mostly from the flux.

Back in the 60's you did file tips. They were made of copper and only tinned by solder; not plated. Yup! I've been doing this for 50 years.

 

[jackn2mpu]

Jeeze fellows, you are not trying to solder tiny electronics to a PC board. A simple 30-35 watt iron (Ungar) is ideal. There are no mysteries or complex operations about soldering...just practice.

Tip life will be extended considerably, if you always put it back into a proper holder after each use. The heat element should rest against the holder in a way to dissipate the heat away from the tip.

Never file tips! All the tips are now plated and filing will remove this. They are plated to have even heat across the tip and the plating eliminates the need for "tinning". They do not need any maintenance other than wiping with a a damp cloth or sponge. Someone asked about the crud: it's mostly from the flux.

Back in the 60's you did file tips. They were made of copper and only tinned by solder; not plated. Yup! I've been doing this for 50 years.

While we may not be soldering parts to a pc board that's no excuse for sloppy work. You should always do as best as you can - this is one area where 'good enough' is NOT good enough. Elsewise you're going to be chasing all kinds of weird problems down the line. Do sloppy solder work here and more likely than not you'll carry that same mindset into other soldering work.

The only real reasons for putting a soldering tool in a holder are: to prevent the handpiece & tip from becoming damaged with a possible knock to the floor and to keep one from accidentally burning one's self. As far as dissipating heat away from the tip for being a reason to put a handpiece in a holder- that's a new one, and I've been soldering for close to 50 years myself.

Plating on the tip does NOT do away with the need for tinning the tip.

 

[RexHea]

Well Jack, your comments do not surprise me other than you have been soldering for near 50 years. If so, then you would know the difference in the wear of a soldering tip that is placed in a holder vs. one that has been left lying on a workbench . Yes, a holder does the obvious, hold, but the metal or ceramic lined hole on the holder will conduct some of the heat away from the tip for non-regulated soldering irons. Of course, a soldering station will try to keep the tip at a constant temp, but the effect of heat sinking the heating element will enhance the life of the tip. Glad you learned something new!

Have you forgotten: tinning was to allow better and even heat conductivity from the old copper tips to the joint. Plated tips are made to do this by preventing oxidation of the base metal, also = longer life. Applying solder to tip while solding is to enhance solder flow when necessary--difference! It doesn't really matter how you go about it and you do what works for you. The important thing is to always have a clean tip.

Nowhere did I say anything about poor workmanship being acceptable and I don't believe you will find my 1800 feet of track layout being anything other than good workmanship. Your post to imply otherwise is offensive. My comment was directed to learning how is the key more than spending several hundred dollars on a soldering station when an ordinary iron with proper wattage and tip will do the job. No high dollar tool will replace knowing how. A good solder joint is the result of knowing what you are doing and practice doing it. Small items? I use the same iron with a different tip (pointed) on the LEDs used in my scratch build track signals.

 

[jackn2mpu]

Well Jack, your comments do not surprise me other than you have been soldering for near 50 years. If so, then you would know the difference in the wear of a soldering tip that is placed in a holder vs. one that has been left lying on a workbench . Yes, a holder does the obvious, hold, but the metal or ceramic lined hole on the holder will conduct some of the heat away from the tip for non-regulated soldering irons. Of course, a soldering station will try to keep the tip at a constant temp, but the effect of heat sinking the heating element will enhance the life of the tip. Glad you learned something new!

Have you forgotten: tinning was to allow better and even heat conductivity from the old copper tips to the joint. Plated tips are made to do this by preventing oxidation of the base metal, also = longer life. Applying solder to tip while solding is to enhance solder flow when necessary--difference! It doesn't really matter how you go about it and you do what works for you. The important thing is to always have a clean tip.

Nowhere did I say anything about poor workmanship being acceptable and I don't believe you will find my 1800 feet of track layout being anything other than good workmanship. Your post to imply otherwise is offensive. My comment was directed to learning how is the key more than spending several hundred dollars on a soldering station when an ordinary iron with proper wattage and tip will do the job. No high dollar tool will replace knowing how. A good solder joint is the result of knowing what you are doing and practice doing it. Small items? I use the same iron with a different tip (pointed) on the LEDs used in my scratch build track signals.

Never said your track and soldering was defective, just that one should have excellent workmanship wherever one works

As to what you say about the holder and heatsinking the tip, that's plain wrong. If you'd look at the Weller stations shown a couple of posts up then you'd see the tip and sleeve never come in contact with the iron except at the shoulder where the hilt of the handpiece. What you talk about is pure rubbish. No modern soldering station does what you say in heatsinking a handpiece.

 

[RexHea]

Jack: notice the ring you call a "hilt" (don't touch it or it will burn the "H" out of you); notice the holder is steel; notice the ring sits in the steel...=heat sink!

I'm not going to get involved in an exchange of insults as it will lead to a lock on this thread or worse. There has been some excellent help given by others and it should remain open for the more important instructions and advice the poster ask for.

You said yours; I've said mine. You disagree and that is fine, but a better choice of wording would have been more appropriate. That should be enough; let's both move on.

 

[jackn2mpu]

Jack: notice the ring you call a "hilt" (don't touch it or it will burn the "H" out of you); notice the holder is steel; notice the ring sits in the steel...=heat sink!

I'm not going to get involved in an exchange of insults as it will lead to a lock on this thread or worse. There has been some excellent help given by others and it should remain open for the more important instructions and advice the poster ask for.

You said yours; I've said mine. You disagree and that is fine, but a better choice of wording would have been more appropriate. That should be enough; let's both move on.

There is no better choice of words on my part. I stand by what I said. Check your email for more.

 

[TomR]

I not only have been soldering for nearly 50 years as part of a hobby, I've been soldering over 40 years professionally. This includes managing electronics assembly.

The notion a soldering iron holder dissipates significant heat is not correct. If we have that happen, we need to revisit what we have for an iron or a holder!

As for soldering rail joiners, I've found it best to do that. The rails potentially can have much less resistance than distribution wires many people use.

For example with code 100 rail:

"Silver" rail = 1.45 milliohms per inch
Brass rail = 0.48 milliohms per inch
#16 copper wire = 0.33 milliohms per inch

"Silver" rail has about 3 times the resistance per foot of brass.

Brass code 100 and #16 wire are somewhat close in inch per inch resistance, so if you have 10 feet of copper with perfect connections attempting to jumper 7 feet of brass code 100, they are about equal. Of course the copper is much better than silver code 100 rail.

I measured joint resistance on a few dozen unsoldered joints.

Joint resistance of looser fit joints was 48 milliohms average. That's like 3 feet of silver rail and 8 feet of brass rail.

Joint resistance of tight fresh joints was 6.5 milliohms average, about the same as 4.5 inches of silver rail and 13.5 inches of brass rail.

Soldered joints were all below 0.5 milliohms, too low to get a good reading so they can be considered negligible.

(edit: rail resistance is per individual rail)


Tom

 

[jackn2mpu]

The one thing I don't think that was mentioned in this thread as regards soldering rail joiners - don't solder every one of them. If you do, as the seasons change and things expand and contract, soldering every joiner could cause some nasty kinks in the rail. You could also get out-of-gauge between the two rails just like the real railroads do.

Of course a lot of this also depends on how solid your layout base is and how often you spike your rail (if you handlay) and if you use pc board ties.