Sn3 Mogul from an HO Roundhouse Oldtime Mogul


hminky

hminky

Member
I have a "what I did" about regauging an HO Oldtime Athearn/Roundhouse Mogul mechanism to Sn3 at:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/sn3/mogul/mechanism/

0001_mogul_frame.jpg


It will eventually be a Nevada County Narrow Gauge #2 Style Mogul.

Thank you if you visit
Harold
 
Harold;

Looks to be a good starting point. ;)

I can remember reading a review by MR on the Mantua 4-6-0. It seems the only "complaint" they had with it was the model, which is based on the Sierra Railroad #12 (I think thats the number), is that its too big. :eek: It is enormous when compared to the prototype.

They did say the advantage to the size was the model was almost a "perfect" start to an Sn3 4-6-0.:D

Ever make one using the Mantua 4-6-0.:)
 
Cjcrescent said:
Harold;

Looks to be a good starting point. ;)

I can remember reading a review by MR on the Mantua 4-6-0. It seems the only "complaint" they had with it was the model, which is based on the Sierra Railroad #12 (I think thats the number), is that its too big. :eek: It is enormous when compared to the prototype.

They did say the advantage to the size was the model was almost a "perfect" start to an Sn3 4-6-0.:D

Ever make one using the Mantua 4-6-0.:)
Click to expand...

The Mantua 4-6-0 is an S scale version of a Southern Pacific Narrow Gauge loco not the sierra #12. There is a plan of one in May 1983 Model Railroader. It is an almost exact copy including cab size and tender.

If S scale wasn't such a unwanted stepchild of model railroading, Sn3 could have been really big. Tell someone you are an S scaler and they will look at you like you eat your children.

The mogul article was something I had worked up a while back and put together an article. I have returned to On30, there is a better variety of less expensive equipment available in On30. Sn3 is trully an elitist endeavor, nice equipment if you are into Colorado and have cubic money. Too bad it is so exclusionary.

Harold
 
hminky said:
The Mantua 4-6-0 is an S scale version of a Southern Pacific Narrow Gauge loco not the sierra #12. There is a plan of one in May 1983 Model Railroader. It is an almost exact copy including cab size and tender.

Harold
Click to expand...

Harold;

We maybe talking about 2 separate locos. (One of the early Mantua Locos?) I found this on NEB&W's website.
This is the one MR described as a good start for an Sn3 loco.

"308 4-6-0 Ten-Wheeler - Based on the Sierra's No. 3, a loco used by Hollywood in many films. It was also featured in the TV show, Petticoat Junction. The loco was originally built by Rogers in 1891. In 1929, it was seen in Gary Cooper's The Virginian, but then put into storage until after WWII. In the '50's, when mainline steam was gone, it was brought back out for the camera for High Noon, The Great Race, Lassie, Gunsmoke, Bonanza, The Wild Wild West, and Little House on the Prairie. Currently (2006), the prototype is in pieces and needs funding to be restored.
Unfortunately, the model was made toOO scale (1/76) rather than true HO (1/87). Biggest problem with this is that the cab is little oversized."This is the website;

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/article.php?article=2606

This is the loco that I'm thinking of. I know that I got the Loco # wrong, (coming down with another spell of hafheimers I guess.) Good thing I ain't Alz there yet. (There yet? Are we going somewhere????):D

I have had the pleasure of working on some of the old brass Mantuas from the 1950's, esp the Mogul. The owner has 3 of them and been running them since he got them in college. They are just now beginning to give him a bunch of problems due to wear. Those Mantuas were real good mechanisms, but very sparse detail.
 
Place the Tyco/Mantua ten-wheeler on the Model Railroader SP narrow gauge plan and you will realize that it is that loco. The only difference is the cab windows and the use of HO 61" drivers because that is what they had. It is not an OO scale version of the sierra locomotive it is too large.

I built an Sn3.5 loco using one a long time ago and it has been used for a 4-4-0 in S narrow gauge in the 1980's.

Harold
 
hminky said:
Place the Tyco/Mantua ten-wheeler on the Model Railroader SP narrow gauge plan and you will realize that it is that loco. The only difference is the cab windows and the use of HO 61" drivers because that is what they had. It is not an OO scale version of the sierra locomotive it is too large.

I built an Sn3.5 loco using one a long time ago and it has been used for a 4-4-0 in S narrow gauge in the 1980's.

Harold
Click to expand...

Harold, I love what you can do with kits/kitbashing and such. You have the ability to really think out of the box concerning locomotives and cars. You really have wizard skills.

But I'm sorry man, I still have to disagree as to the prototype of the Tyco/Mantua 4-6-0.

The Rodgers loco the Tyco/Mantua was based on, was a standard late 1800's "catalog loco". This meant that often the only options RR's could pick on these locos was the different appliances external to the loco itself such as but not limited to, check valves, bells and headlights, air compressor type and number. All the builders had these catalog locos during this time. It wasn't until later that locos really became "custom builds" to each RR.

If all you're relying on is plan matching, I can also match the Tyco/Mantua loco to several other different protoype plans, including several of the Southern's 4-6-0's. Plan matching just doesn't work in this situation.

So, would you be convinced by these-

http://petticoat.topcities.com/page1.htm

http://petticoat.topcities.com/scalemodels.htm

There was a discussion of the same subject across the street as late as today-

http://cs.trains.com/forums/1446152/ShowPost.aspx

And even the Tyco collectors forum mentions the prototype in this topic-

http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2561

If this still doesn't convince you, nothing I can say, quote, or show will convince you otherwise.
 
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It just looks like it, the locomotive is way oversize to be #3. Arbour made a kit of the #3 and if you compare it to that kit you can see the difference.

Did you compare it to the SP narrow gauge plan. It matches it down to the pilot and tender. A catalog standard gauge locomotivewith the wide spread rear drivers of the 1880's would be much smaller than the Tyco loco. If you have a Locomotive Encylopedia from that period it is obvious that it isn't a standard gauge prototype. It is an HO TOY locomotive.

Do you ever think that maybe THEY don't know what they are talking about?

The original Model Railroader review in 1969 pointed out it was way oversize and would make a good Sn3-1/2 locomotive. That is when MR had real Model Railroad people.

Harold
 
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hminky said:
It just looks like it, the locomotive is way oversize to be #3. Arbour made a kit of the #3 and if you compare it to that kit you can see the difference.

Did you compare it to the SP narrow gauge plan. It matches it down to the pilot and tender. A catalog standard gauge locomotivewith the wide spread rear drivers of the 1880's would be much smaller than the Tyco loco. If you have a Locomotive Encylopedia from that period it is obvious that it isn't a standard gauge prototype. It is an HO TOY locomotive.

Do you ever think that maybe THEY don't know what they are talking about?

The original Model Railroader review in 1969 pointed out it was way oversize and would make a good Sn3-1/2 locomotive. That is when MR had real Model Railroad people.

Harold
Click to expand...

Harold;

I'm not denying the oversize of the model and yes it is big. Arbor was the only company to do the #3 correctly outside of any brass. But Tyco made it bigger on purpose.
The reason was the motor. They wanted to get the motor into the frame and not the tender. All the Tyco/Mantua locos used the same motor. The size of the loco was adjusted to accomplish this. Even the RPI site commented on how the motor made the smaller Tyco/Mantua models bigger than they had to be, to enclose the motor in the frame.

The loco also fits the SRR narrow gauge 4-6-0 loco plans as well, but this doesn't mean the SRR locos are the prototypes. Everything I've ever read and heard says the Tyco Hooterville Cannonball loco, (the Rodgers 1890), used the Sierra #3. Even MR & RMC has mentioned it, The RPI website, The Tyco collectors website etc. I might consider that the websites could be wrong but not a mag that did the review back when the people that ran the mag as you say ."were modelers themselves".
 
Harold;

Don't know about you but I am enjoying this discussion. This is the type of discussion that usually occurs face to face and not on a forum. And in my mind, this is what a forum is about.
 
sp_ten_wheeler.jpg


The SP loco was a Baldwin catalog loco starting out as a mogul. They were rebuilt to the ten-wheeler configuration by SP. That is why I say that it is the prototype dressed up as the Hooterville locomotive. It is definitely not OO scale.

Harold
 
The loco does match closely, Harold, but there is one thing not considered. The Tyco/Mantua loco is a 1890 Rogers, which became part of ALCO. The SP is a Baldwin.
 
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