Pre Stain Ties ?

[DALDEI]

I'm hand laying turnouts and track (HO) using FastTracks forms & supplies. For my first bit I've been pre-staining the ties (and the pre-build tie forms and "switch sticks") with a Walnut wood stain.

Then later I paint the track, Ties and roadbed with Floquil Weathered Black with an airbrush.

Now as my second bag of ties is running out and I just made my first curved turnout and need to glue it to the ties/switch-sticks I'm wonder go I really need to pre-stain the ties ?

My thoughts are that it makes it more fool-proof when I paint, so I dont have to lay a heavy paint on every angle just to make the ties not white. But then I'm looking ahead to a 2-5 year project and starting to think maybe I can skip this step ? Wont the paint be enough ?

Thoughts on this. Is it overkill or prudent to pre-stain the ties if I'm going to paint over anyway ? Its not that I'm in a hurry but If its truely pointless why bother ?

http://trains.calldei.com

-David

Thanks for any advise

 

[Motley]

I don't know, but from your pictures of the ties, they look great. I would think the wood stain makes it look better, more realistic. In that each tie has a different shade to it, so they all don't look exactly the same.

But your making great progress, I remember your layout thread. Keep up the good work! I still can't believe you're hand laying all track for your first time, but it's looking mighty darn good.

I saw that Centipede at my LHS the other day, very nice.

 

[DALDEI]

Thanks. The closeups are of the ties *before* I paint the whole thing. The final they look a lot more consistant, not sure I like that but so far its the only way I've figured of painting the rail, and roadbed at once. But good point though, it doesnt take much time to pre-stain the ties I just plunk em in a jar and pour in the stain then strain it out.
And this way if when I paint I dont get it from all angles nothing stands out as white against black.

FYI Just completed my first Curved turnout ! Wasnt as hard as I thought it would be. Thanks to Fastracks !!!

 

[Motley]

Hmm, in my opinion, I think you should not paint the ties after staining them. I mean they look really good in that photo.

 

[DALDEI]

Yes they do, but then the rails arnt weathered.
Once Paint the ties/track/roadbed, clean it then add the ballest, which rubs in a bit of gray dust the end result is pretty good. I could probably pre-weather the rail instead.
Who knows !

The very top "logo" picture at http://trains.calldei.com (a bit out of focus) shows what the end result is.

 

[Cjcrescent]

Daldei;

I handlay all my track as well. But I cut my on ties out on a small table saw set up with jigs. I use a mixture of minwax's water based American Walnut stain, made slighlty darker with a dose of black acrylic paint. This is further diluted with more water I glue the ties down, then I stain them using a foam brush. Its almost like the old, shoe dye and alcohol mixture used in the past, the deeper the stain goes into the solution the darker the stain.

 

[DALDEI]

I've been thinking about this all night (I wonder why my wife things I'm obsessive ?)
Why I *think* I need to paint over after its all done is because my turnouts have some PC ties, plus I'm going to be using some construction with interlaced PC Ties. Plus when I solder the droplines and joints they need to be on clean track and leave a solder spot. The only way I've found so far to make it look reasonable is to airbrush over the whole track once its done. The results are prety good, IMHO, but they are NOT as good as the ties which were just stained and no painting. But not sure how to have it both ways.

Thinking of trying a lighter cover paint color (tie brown instead of weathered black), and maybe for some branchline dead-end sections which have no PC ties leave just the raw stained ties and blend it in when it comes near the turnout with the PC Ties.

 

[dave1905]

You paint the rail "rail brown" or "roof brown" BEFORE you lay the rail on the stained ties. The Ties are the color they are supposed to be and the rail is color its supposed to be (neither of which is black).

I stain the ties with alcohol based black leather dye, sand of the tops and then hit it with a light coat of stain. That leaves the ties a nice grey color, like weathered, untreated wood (my layout is set in 1900-1905 so creosoted ties are just starting to be commonplace). The rail is painted roof brown, a nice stable old rust color.

 

[DALDEI]

Dave, this looks awseome. Do you use any PCB ties ? What do you do about solder joints (for rail connections, and drop lines?) Do you have to scrape/sand bare the rail to solder to it ? What do you do to cover the solider and/or PCB ties (if any) to match the tie color ?

Thanks for any ideas !

 

[dave1905]

I have used PCB ties under the code 55 rail.

I tape a several pieces of masking tape to a piece of cardboard/masonite/homasote with the sticky side up. I put the rail base down onto the tape, spaced 3/4 of an inch or so apart. I airbrush it roof brown. That leaves the base of the rail unpainted. I use a Bright Boy to clean the paint off the sides of the rail where necessary.

The rail is soldered to the PC ties (so far only used in track not switches). I then paint it a light/medium grey and then put a coat of tie dye over it It comes out preety close to the wood ties.

All feeders are soldered to the bottom of the rail. If I have to solder a joint, I clean the paint off before hand.

All my switches are built to Reading Co. switch diagrams. I found a 1922 Reading M of W rule book with switch diagrams from #3 to #14. I reduced them down to HO scale and use them for my switch and tie placement.

Instead of PC ties, if I want to prebuild switches, I build switches on a paper template then solder brass trips across the tops of the rails at 4 places. Then I can unspike the switch and place it in place and spike it down.

My normal method is to build frogs, guard rails and point rails and then assemble the pieces in place (just like the prototype).

I use the natural insulated gaps as "break points" in the switch components. So the frog is one piece and the point to the frog gap is another piece.

20 years ago I made switches on PC board ties but prefer other methods now.

 

[Trussrod]

Hi Guys,
I've always laid my track and switches a bit differently in that I mark the area where the ties are going to be applied and then spread out yellow carpenters glue over tie path and individually lay the ties in a somewhat haphazard fashion as I'm modeling a rural branch line area and the several small town it connects too.

For the switches I build mine over a printed template tacking down PC strips at various areas for the rail to be soldered to. Once I get the switch built in whatever form it needs to be in I then lay it down and mark where the PC strips are and glue down switch ties for the rail to be spiked to, in the vacant areas not filled by the PC strips. This is the same method used for either the Rail Craft/Micro Engineering weathered code 70 or 55 rail.

Before I lay any rail I like to scrub the tops of the tie using a small Stainless Steel brush as that removes the loose wood and leaves the ties rough and weather beaten.

Then I use various stain colors, a light grey, a light tan as well as rosewood & maple to stain the ties using a small flat brush. Usually I'll do two or three at a time depending on what seems right to me. This way the ties have a mixture colors and a weather beaten especially after applying some dirt and a bit of ballast maybe. I don't get into of the darker ties as I want this area to look old and well used although. Once I get this done and the stain has dried I then go back and position the rails using the approiate gauges and predrill the spike holes about about .002 smaller in diameter than the small spikes and do this about every 6 ties as I progress down the rail. As shown in these shots. I have not put down any dirt or ballast as yet as I want it to tie in with the surroundings as I'm sure they would have use whatever was available locally.


Sorry for the small image size I'll try and correct that.

Now on the upper section of the line as it would be too strenuous on my back to do it the same way I'm going to use Central Valley's branch line tie strips which I'll have to spray a light grey or tan ahead of time to kill the black look of them before I lay them down but they should make laying rail a lot faster as they are pre gauged with tie plates but will still require pre drilling but that's where the cordless Dremel 800/8000 really comes in hanmdy.

I just happened to think I also used double sided carpet tape and stuck the ties to it as it passed over an area I plan to put in a somewhat low curved wood trestle.


I looking at Dave's picture above that reminded me that I'm going to need quite a few hand throws and I like the high level ones with the raised targets. So I've got to figure out how to make them economically similar to the Caboose high level operating switch stands with targets. Wish I could get in touch with Ken Barnhart as he had a working drawing of one as he was a machinest and pattern maker.