Oops, looks like some one at Sacramento left a door open.


joshjefflawn

joshjefflawn

Espeerailfan#1
Well, I heard that SP was painting some ex UP SD90/43MAC's into grey and scarlet.
When I got there I noticed somebody "accedentaly" left the back door open, I snuck in to look, and take some "unofficial photos", Looks like ex UP 8242 is well on its way to become SP 800. ha ha.

I think I'm pretty much done with the painting, I just have to apply some decales. I'll have a nice SD90/43MAC in Espee.:D
 
Thanks, the funny thing is I'm just starting. I got like 4 other locomotives I'm doing the same thing to, ha ha. we will see what happens.:)
 
hmm... interesting...

What's your story behind those? SP buy UP instead of the other way around?
 
V&AL said:
hmm... interesting...

What's your story behind those? SP buy UP instead of the other way around?
Click to expand...

You know, ironically, that is what happenend, and they decided to keep the UP name unfortunately.
Imagine all of the UP fleet being repainted Grey and Crimson, wouldn't that have been nice.:cool:
 
ThoroughBreed said:
You know, ironically, that is what happenend, and they decided to keep the UP name unfortunately.
Imagine all of the UP fleet being repainted Grey and Crimson, wouldn't that have been nice.:cool:
Click to expand...

Cough....cough! Pipe dream maybe... but that is all...:D:p Sorry to disappoint:eek:
 
OOPS, read the bottom of pages 1 and 2, and it will detail the agreements set forth before the dissolution of the ICC of the merger of the CNW/SP/UPRR and then the dissolution of the agreement because of the dissolution of the ICC. Then they of course, redid the paperwork to put the control of the SP and CNW into the UPRR. (Maybe some people should read the little details on the sidesill of the dash 9 locos of the CNW and SP/DRGW that states this).
So, I will not argue with some people over who did what, as the paperwork so lists the actions.
If you want to read further, find the original owner of the DRGW and find out who had controlling interests in UP at the time, that may tell you something. :eek:
 
True that may be, but the official decision still says the control of SP by UP, not the opposite. Notice that until 1997 MP still existed, in official terms, as does Conrail now in the NS/CSX split.

I still cannot find the paperwork that says SP was to take over UP... Do you have a photo of the sill of a CNW or SP unit that says such, because I've never seen it.
 
P.S. I'm not trying to flame Eric, I just want to find out where the info is coming from, and see proof, not hear-say...
 
Found this about the SP/UP. Sounds like the real story.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1817.html

Southern Pacific is acquired

In 1984, the Santa Fe Railroad merged with Southern Pacific (along with many smaller rail lines) to form the Santa Fe Southern Pacific Corporation. However, the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) took exception to the merger conditions. Instead, the company was ordered to make some changes, one of which resulted in the shortened name of Santa Fe Pacific Corporation.

Following some discussion around the details of the merger, it was decided that the Southern Pacific name would be put up for sale. Four years later, on October 13, 1988, the Southern Pacific Railroad was acquired by Rio Grande Industries. After taking control of the Southern Pacific and a long debate of what to do with it, it was decided that they would maintain the name Southern Pacific for the railroad operations.

Even though Rio Grande Industries held good intentions for the Southern Pacific, it was taken over by the Union Pacific Railroad because of Rio Grande's financial difficulties.
 
Yup, its known that Santa Fa & SP were in fact one company for some time, until the parent corporation sold off SP and maintained business as Santa Fe. Funny that it was known as the Santa Fe Southern Pacific Corporation, though the railroad was the SPSF... Even more "funny", SP owned what is now Sprint.
 
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From what I remember (it's been over a decade), the way Trains magazine reported it was that in a convoluted paperwork shuffle, SP was the surviving entity on paper, which then changed its name to UP. That is probably where the confusion over who was who came from. Whether it was correct info or not, it was reported as such.
 
V&AL said:
hmm... interesting...

What's your story behind those? SP buy UP instead of the other way around?
Click to expand...

The story behind the SD90MAC getting painted into SP, is this. I like espee, got tired of UP, so I "edited" SP history so that in 2000, Southern Pacific Rio Grande Company buys out Union Pacific.
To make it short I am modeling a ficticous Espee, Rio Grande railroad that continued into the future. I plan to paint some later model AC4400CW's into SP (ex UP) and eventually get some SD70M-2's and ES45ACE's, and paint them into SP.:cool:
I have acctually taken the time to write out a brief alteared history. I might go ahead and post it.
I'd been kicking around the idea of modeling SPSF that acctually merged, but I didn't like the idea of loosing the SP grey and scarlet, and I also didn't like the idea of espee not having a controlling share of the railroad, so thats how I came up with Souther Pacific Rio Grande Company. Also inspiration came from those guys doing the NYC, and RI railroads.
 
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jbaakko said:
Funny that it was known as the Santa Fe Southern Pacific Corporation, though the railroad was the SPSF... Even more "funny", SP owned what is now Sprint.
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Actually, Sprint was founded by SP, it grew out of what one time was Southern Pacific (Railroad) INTernal communications. SPRINT.

And now you know the rest of the story!
 
So, here's the official word from UP...

Summary, Union Pacific Railroad Co. railroad merged into Southern Pacific Transportation Co. (yes, SP the railroad survived, technically), though changed its name to Union Pacific Railroad Co. this was done to keep the Delaware corporation.

However, UP, the corporation took over SP, the corporation, so in all official terms, UP took over SP, just the railroad entries went opposite due to the corporation's location.

Dear Mr. Baakko:

Union Pacific did, in fact, acquire all the former railroads. Perhaps this will explain the SP transaction a bit better.

A Union Pacific Corporation subsidiary (not UPRR) acquired Southern Pacific Rail Corporation ("SPC") effective September 11, 1996.
Missouri Pacific Railroad Company ("MPRR") was merged into UPRR effective January 1, 1997. The Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad Company ("DRGW"), part of SP, was merged into UP effective June 30, 1997, as was the SPCSL Corporation ("SPCSL"). SPCSL was merged into UP effective June 30, 1997. The St. Louis Southwestern Railway Company ("SSW"), another piece of SP, was merged into UP effective September 30, 1997.

Union Pacific Railroad Company, a Utah corporation, was merged into Southern Pacific Transportation Company, a Delaware corporation ("SPTC")
effective February 1, 1998. While SPTC was the entity surviving the merger, this entity immediately changed its name to "Union Pacific Railroad Company" when the merger became effective. The resulting Union Pacific Railroad Company is a Delaware corporation, and there is no longer a company named Southern Pacific Transportation Company.

The short answer in layman's terms is that UPC bought the SP and as part of the corporate consolidation merged UP Railroad into the SP entity that was the railroad and a Delaware corporation, but changed the name of the resulting company to Union Pacific Railroad Company.

I think it can be summarized as based on accounting, tax and legal considerations.

John Bromley, Director Historic Projects
Union Pacific Railroad Museum
Click to expand...
 
Uh huh, see, thats what I remembered, but didnt have the documentation to back it up.
So, lets imagine all the current UP units actually being SP painted for a minute, wouldn't it be nice instead of the boring yellow/grey? And theoritically, they are SP units.....:rolleyes:
 
Well, they're not really SP units since the name "Southern Pacific" ceased directly after the merger of the UP and SP and the SP, as we knew it, ceased to exist two years before that. Still, with that convoluted corporate history, you can make up almost any back story you want. :)
 
ThoroughBreed said:
Uh huh, see, thats what I remembered, but didnt have the documentation to back it up.
So, lets imagine all the current UP units actually being SP painted for a minute, wouldn't it be nice instead of the boring yellow/grey? And theoritically, they are SP units.....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Possibly...

Thanks for getting me digging...
 
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