Newbie with an exploding head!


Y

y2kdad

New Member
After reading through some of the threads, boy am I glad to have access to you guys!

My 11-year-old son and I are planning our first layout. I've spent the last 2 months reading everything I could get my hands on and searching the Internet for as many resources as I could find. I have to admit, I am very intimidated by some of the work I've seen out there! Truly remarkable. I'm almost too scared to even make an attempt at this, but what would that teach my son?....:) Just the amount of information out there is enough to make my head explode!

Here is what I have been able to determine, so far:

1. We have space for a 6 x 12 bench
2. Definitely want to use DCC
3. I definitely want to have a layout which includes a few tunnels and bridges with at least two trains (for now - not even sure if the wife will let me buy more than two!) but I am not very talented when it comes to carpentry. So, open-grid bench work and wooden risers would be just a pipe dream for me.

I am still trying to figure out a layout which will run my PRR passenger cars (need a 22" radius) but will also have double-tracks at various points so I can run a freight train on the inner track. I have a feeling I'll be working on the layout design for another year!!......:(

Here are my questions, so far:

1. I understand the difference between Code 83 and Code 100. But I'm not sure which to use. I don't know if our layout will ever look as good as some of the ones I've seen out there, so do I need to use something as authentic as Code 83? I don't know which one would be easier to purchase and work with.

2. I've been looking at Atlas Snap-Track and Flex Track. Can I use ANY DCC system with ANY track? Or, do I need to use the Atlas DCC system?

3. Are there any rules to follow when laying track? I've been playing with "AnyRail" software and am having a hard time coming up with a track plan that will have parallel tracks, evenly spaced around a curve (an outer curve of 22"). Is there a trick to combining the different sized track (I've noticed that I had to combine 22" and 18" curves in the software at times)? Or, when I lay the track do I just measure the space every few inches along the curve to make sure it is evenly spaced?

Sorry for such a long post. I do appreciate any feedback/direction you all can offier.

Thanks!!
 
There are only two people that have to be pleased with your layout.One is you and the other is your son.Now advice from an old hand at this sort of thing.Make the first version of your layout simple,get used to working with the materials then expand your horizons.

Way to many beginners have big plans for their layout rush through the building stage then get discouraged when the darn trains won't run on it or stay on the rails

Track code is usually user's choice but a lot of older rolling stock and locos have big flanges and will bounce on the tie plates of the smaller code rail.One thing to watch for when laying track is making sure that the track pieces are square where they join together.

One more bit of advise ,keep asking questions it is the easiest way to learn
 
Most people use Code 83, because its smaller and more realistic looking.

Flex track is great because you can curve it any which way you want, and you have less joiner connections because its 36" long sections.

I hate sectional track personally.
 
As far as being a beginner, no problem we all were once.

Some things to think about after I read your post would be:

6' x 12' bench space. Is this something you can get around to all sides? ie. walk around. Practical reach is about 30 inches.

I would go with Code 100 and keep it simple, maybe better for 11 year olds. You can visit my thread on this page "Building the Pinnacle Creek Mining and Timber Co." When you decide on things it may be a helpful guide. Certainly cheaper than buying all the $21 Kalmbach books. 80,000 views in less that 13 months seems to make the thread worth your time.

Lastly, I know the value of 'father/son' time. Wish I could have had more time with mine. You mention your son is 11. Fine for this summer and maybe the next, but what about the next year and the year after. I don't want to throw water on the fire, but you and I and billions of others went through puberty and I'm positive model railroading never crossed my mind. Just something to keep in mind. Good luck and have great times together. Jim:)
 
Hey y2k, just to give you some more stuff to think about. When you build your benchwork, use drywall screws instead of nails. It makes for easier adjustments later on if needed. In addition, if you have to make adjustments after scenery and models are set in place, running a drill won't create earthquakes as a hammer would.
I would also recommend that you nail you track down with the small wire nails you can get at Lowes or Home Depot. It's easier to move the track than if you glued it down. The same for cork roadbed.
If you don't know how to solder, learn how to. It's pretty easy. Attach your track wires by soldering. A 75 watt iron should be sufficient. Go with an iron vs. a gun. You can file the tip to a point for smaller jobs. Buy the smallest diameter solder that you can find at Radio Shack. Be sure it does not have acid core. A small can of soldering flux would be useful too.
Finally, your son is 11 now? Someday, and probably not to far off, your son will come to you and say, "Dad, trains aren't cool anymore". Just take it in stride and look to the local community for like minded modelers.
 
I agree using Code 100 for your layout for the reasons stated. Flex track is excellent for places where you run curves that are gentle, but you may want tighter ones, and for that, I'd go with Atlas Snap Track of 22-inch radius, if you have room, and 18"R and maybe even 15"R for tight branch lines. If you can't handle 22, but 18 is too sight, Walthers has Shinohara sectional of various other radii, including 20", which is what I use for my main lines.

Whatever you use, remember, it's you and your boy's railroad. Do whatever period and whatever combinations of railroads, etc., you want. Do NOT be afraid to ask for help here, from you Local Hobby Shop (LHS). Nobody starts out knowing much, especially nowadays with all the fancy electronics. I started my first layout with American Flyer S-scale when I was about 9 or 10. I had two or three 4 x 8 sheets of plywood atop some packing barrels my folks had in our basement. I switched to HO about age 12. My Dad wasn't in to it, and was busy earning a liviing for Mom and me, so I had to learn on my own. That was three layouts and 58 years ago, and I'm still learning, especially about this DCC stuff. Have fun, boys!
 
Welcome Y2K Dad,

Code 100 or 83, up to you, is something available in one and not the other that you want? Cost?

I would suggest flex track to get the radius you want, mixing like you suggest may not work well.

You may want to list your city, if there are any nearby members willing to show you theirs they will know where you are at.

I'm a big fan of around the room shelf type railroads. You can set the at any height, what ever is comfortable for you. You can either fasten them to the wall or setup on narrow free standing tables. Mine is 24" deep at most with most of the shelf at 12" or even less. You can go completely around the room if you want continuous running, just use bridges or lift out bridges for doorways.
This will free the entire center of the room. If the railroad is high enough most furniture will fit against the wall under the railroad. My current railroad is point to point, using turntables and wyes to turn steam engines. A lot of places for industry switching too.

From the experience with my three boys I found kids have a short attention span, usually around 45 minutes, so multi-hour operation sessions don't interest them.
Trains running in loops don't hold their attention for more than a couple minutes. My boys did enjoy hands on, switching, start and stopping the train, changing direction, and building. They enjoyed building cars and structures, then placing them on the railroad and interacting with them. I am doing Canadian Pacific, 1954 era. But I let them do whatever they wanted. That worked really well. If they built the car or engine, they treated it quite well, even gave me a hard time if I coupled at too great a speed. Some things broke, but that was fine, a good learning experience, we all had a great time together.
 
as has been said above
- Simple answer is Keep it Simple.
- Use the track that is easiest for you to find, and is easiest for you to put together, and works with the trains you have to run.
- Start small and go from there. Don't try to build the dream layout on day 1.
- Don't be afraid to build something then change it later. The layout that has had every detail planned beforehand on paper is still waiting for a new pencil to arrive...
- DCC does not depend on the track. Electricity runs through any metal track. But understand the basics of DCC/track wiring before you try and get too clever.
- AS a SIMPLIFICATION, DCC can be thought of as having 2 parts - the controller/box/etc and whatever is in the locos. If everything is NMRA compliant, you can mix manufacturers of system and locos (MOSTLY...), but the System should be a single manufacturer. Note there are exceptions, a bit of simple research on these forums will probably show the way.
Hope this helps.
 
Very good info...not much more to add. I will share my own experience with my son. We got him his first train when he was five. This got me & the wife involved as well. Well he's nineteen now & loosing interest...new truck, girl friend, college, & trips to mission fields has taken his interests now. I'm very proud of him & can look back & say I'm glad we shared our RR together. Let your son learn as you do, let him see your mistakes & work together. We had side by side work places & sometimes it took a lot patience but I made it work. His first weathering job on a cattle car looked like it had poka dots all over it...I still have it we named it Josh's poka dot car. Main thing is have fun & build memories & let your son be a child. We have four grandsons now so I guess I'll have to start all over :D
 
Thank you!!

Wow. Thank you all for the great advice and such thoughtful answers. I certainly have come to the right place!...:)

I was only leaning towards Code 83 because I thought it would provide more realism. However, since we're beginners I'm sure our first layout is probably going to be a little "rough around the edges" and full of mistakes (my son and I aren't exactly what you'd call "artists" so the scenery we build should look quite interesting..:eek:) So, perhaps Code 100 would be the best choice, at least for now.....as long as it is available in all the pieces we need. Maybe I should buy a few pieces of both, enough to make a couple of sections of track and just compare how easy it would be for my son to work with(?) I'm only running new trains so I could use Code 83 as well......need to think about that one.

Regarding the space, yes, I do have about 2 feet of walk-around space AND the bench I'm planning to build (with a friend's help) is not a perfect rectangle. There will be a section cut into it from the longer side. I think the reach shouldn't be a problem.

Timlange3, I like the idea of an around-the-room layout, but we have wooden shelves built into the basement wall for storage. I'd probably need to consult the wife if I'm going to tear those down.

I would like to use as much Flex track as possible, regardless if I go with Code 83 or 100. I assume Flex track is easy to use regardless of the code(?).

D&J Railroad, I was thinking about soldering the joints together but I read somewhere that the track needs to expand and contract, based on ambient temperature so it wasn't recommended by that one source.
Is that correct?

Lastly, I hope you all don't mind if I post some pictures of my progress. I will definitely need help me if I can come to you all for advice, especially if I run into the inevitable snag!

Thanks again, EVERYONE!
 
we looooove pictures :p & yes start simple & learn wiring & track laying & scenery , like others have said the more involved with a complex layout the quicker you & your son will lose interest.it will come easy after awhile good luck :D
 
While it is true that Code 83 is closer to the heavier prototype rail, and there are folks who mix Code 83 and 100 (the latter for main, the former for branch lines), and there are transition rail joiners readily available, I would recommend you stick with one or the other for simplicity.

Flex track is fairly easy to use, though for the tight curves you will probably use on a 4 x 8 layout, you may want to use sectional track for curves in the 22"R to 18"R and even 15"R curves, using flex track for much broader curves and straight sections. You can certainly use flex track for the tighter curves, but you need to be more careful to keep from getting kinks and locally uneven curvatures. (You can purchase curve gages of different radii that you can use to prevent kinks, etc.)

You don't need to worry too much about track expansion and contraction unless you are going to have terrific variations of temperature and humidity in your basement...which isn't too common even in extreme climates. Having more joints does run the increased possibility of loose rail joiners, oxidation, etc., but you can always solder a joint or two where the problem occurs. I've also used a pair of crimpers to make a firmer connection between a joiner and the rails, at least until I could get the soldering done.
 
No, I wouldn't solder the track joiners. That makes it harder to separate the track later on when you want to make adjustments. As far as expansion problems, I'm wrestling with the wood settling in on my layout/empire. A few kinks have sprung up that I had to deal with.
 
OK, thanks. I completely understand about settling on one Code and sticking with it. And I would definitely mix flex track with sectional....however how do the two compare as far as availability is concerned? After doing some research, this is what I've found:

1. Code 83 appears to be a bit more expensive, on average
2. It looks like most dealers have a limited supply of Code 83 track......they are backordered in most cases.
3. One of the local hobby shops said there are more turnouts available in Code 83(?)

Since we'd like to be as realistic as possible, Code 83 looks to be a better choice...however, I don't want to start with a type of track that will be very difficult to find later on.

What do you guys think?
 
As an aging modeler who has been in this hobby in different forms for over 50 years I will guarantee you that your first layout will change. Probably be scrapped. Use it to learn how to build, wire, and tune the track and rolling stock to operate well. You can experiment with scenery in many different forms and not be afraid to tear it out. You and your son will change your minds about what you want a great deal through out this journey. Learn the skills and techniques of modeling before you decide to build your empire. You're gonna make a great many mistakes but that's how we all learn. Enjoy the journey.

Steve
 
I thought I'd post a link to my old layout that might give some ideas.
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28219
Remember that size isn't that important and as HOexplorer pointed out, you need to be able to reach to the back of the layout. My daughter is now 25 and an artist. she still loves trains and modeling. She was three weeks old when she went to her first train show. Enjoy your time with your son. You'll both remember it for the rest of your lives.

Steve
 
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