Newbie question

[Mathman222]

Hello All,

My children and I are just getting into modeling and purchased a few bits of NKP rolling stock and locos. I recently decided to purchase some hopper cars from other roads and purchased a 6 pack of Virginian 3-bay hopper cars (6-17140). The cars look great to our eyes...but only by themselves. I assumed (I know, a mistake) that scale would be similar across lionel products within the same decade, but these hopper cars are enormous relative to everything else we own!!! my box cars average 10"-11", other coal hoppers around 9"-10", but these hoppers are 12"+. I am assuming there is something I have missed here. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[Iron Horseman]

I recently decided to purchase some hopper cars from other roads and purchased a 6 pack of Virginian 3-bay hopper cars (6-17140). The cars look great to our eyes...but only by themselves. I assumed (I know, a mistake) that scale would be similar across lionel products within the same decade, but these hopper cars are enormous relative to everything else we own!!! my box cars average 10"-11", other coal hoppers around 9"-10", but these hoppers are 12"+. I am assuming there is something I have missed here. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

O-Gauge comes in several forms and various degrees of "toyishness". Most notably is what is called O-27. This equipment is made shorter and smaller to run on tighter corners. Standard O is O-31 meaning the center rail forms a 31 inch circle. Its equipment and locos will be larger and better proportioned. To add to confusion, Lionel in addition to the two sizes above make what they call "scale". The scale ones are a realistic representation of 1:48th the size of the actual car/locomotive. They will be larger than their counter parts. Add to that all the other manufacturers and whatever they do and one can basically end up with just about anything. The only think worse is G-gauge. It has scales from 1:20.4 clear down to 1:32nd that all run on the same size track, Gack!

Then there is the great difference in real hopper car size. They come in 2 bay, 3 bay, 4 bay, and 5 bay sizes ranging from 34' to 60'. They are rated in how much they can carry in tons from 40 to 120. Yours would be 12*4 = 48 scale feet long.

Side note: In O gauge curves are measured in diameter not radius. Standard O is O-31 meaning the center rail forms a 31 inch circle. O-27 forms a 27" circle. In the old days there was another thing called Super-O which was 72" diameter circle. These days one can get O-36, O-45, O-54, O-63, O-72, O-81, O-90, etc. O-108 I believe is the biggest I've seen.

Here is a "scale" 65 ton 2 bay.

 

[Mixed Freight]

Oh, boy. Where to start? 2-rail O-scale trains are a mandatory 1/48 of real size. 3-rail O-gauge trains are more of a "suggestion" of 1/48 of real size. Both 2-rail and 3-rail trains run on track which is 1-1/4" between the rails (the track "gauge"). But that's where the similarity ends.

3-rail O-gauge trains are a total mish-mash of scales. It all stems back to the the origins of O-gauge (100 years ago or so) being a "toy-train" scale. I consider O-27 trains to be more like 1/64 in scale size (aka 3/16" scale), which is smaller than 1/48 scale size (aka 1/4" scale). And then I consider O-31 (Traditional size) to be about 1/56 scale, or about half way in between 1/4" scale and 3/16" scale. And then there are a few that are even a little bigger than 1/48, and a little smaller than 1/64. Not to mention, only the width, and/or only the height, and/or only the length can all be individually stretched or compressed. Good example: I have a Lionel steam engine produced around 1988. For a true 1/48 scale, the width is dead-on correct. The height of the unit is about 1/8" too low (not very noticable). But the overall length of the loco + tender is about a full 7" too short for a true 1/48 scale. Regardless of any of these size differences, they all have one thing in common: they all run on track that is 1-1/4" between the rails.

Postwar Lionel was all over the map in their scale sizes, of both locos and rolling stock. Other manufacturers have also followed suit over the years. It takes awhile to learn all the various O-gauge sizes. I have O-27 sized trains, O-31 sized trains, and 1/48 sized trains. I try and run each train with like sizes together, otherwise they look out of place when mixed in with the other sizes. If you do mix sizes a little bit, Traditional doesn't look TOO bad if run with some 1/48 mixed in. Or else run with some O-27 mixed in. But I DON'T run 1/48 mixed with any O-27 size, 'cuz it just don't look right at all!

This explanation is just my take and opinion on the various size differences, others may have slightly different opinions on the size nomenclatures that I have stated. But, now that you're aware of the various sizes, you may wish to do more research before you buy. It is possible to learn all this stuff, but it takes awhile. Good luck with your education!

 

[Mathman222]

Thank you both for the replies! All of the rolling stock i currently have is O-gauge (not 0-27 or traditional O)...hence my surprise. Still, it looks like there may be significant variation even within a designation...I will just need to be vigilant and/or carry a measuring tape when buying new rollers!

 

[Mixed Freight]

Thank you both for the replies! All of the rolling stock i currently have is O-gauge (not 0-27 or traditional O)...hence my surprise. Still, it looks like there may be significant variation even within a designation...I will just need to be vigilant and/or carry a measuring tape when buying new rollers!

Yeah, but it's still all lumped together as O-gauge.
Here's a pic I found on google images...............

In the above pic, the Modern stuff in the upper two rows only are pretty much 1/48 scale dimensions.
The dimensions on everything else indicate that they are undersized for a true 1/48 scale. Based on their looks in picture, they could be categorized as "Traditional" size or "O-27" size.

Regardless, they are all still considered "O-Gauge".

 

[Iron Horseman]

View attachment 157077

I like that picture it helps a lot. However some of those are different sizes just because the prototype are different sizes 40' box vs a 50' box (especially the Atlas as they are 60' boxes and one is a high-cube car).

I guess this could all be summarized by saying, "when one designates a size as a gauge it means the width of the rails not the size nor scale of the trains running on them". In 1:48th scale that o-gauge track is 5' between the rails.

 

[Mixed Freight]

I guess this could all be summarized by saying, "when one designates a size as a gauge it means the width of the rails not the size nor scale of the trains running on them". In 1:48th scale that o-gauge track is 5' between the rails.

5' between the rails. Yup, that is correct.

By all rights, setting O-scale track gauge at 1-3/16" between the rails would be far closer to the prototype of 4'-8 1/2". But 1-1/4" has been the standard for a long, long time, and while some may have heart palpitations over such heresy, it doesn't bother me (or most others) all that much, if at all.