Need thoughts on new space

[number9]

I like it so far. I envision making the bench work wider to support more yard if need be. I think the yard should also go around the corner, so it forms a large L.
I would like long tracks, this would also be for storage to some extent. I can actually add a shelf on the bottom left of the diagram (the same height as the table) that extends down by some 14 feet or so for "off scene" staging, but that will be later.

Let me see if I can verbalize this: the pipe on the top left is 41" down from the top, and 13" into the basement from the left wall. It is 3/4" in diameter.

The pipe at the top right is 16.5" down from the top, and 63" from the right wall. It is 4" in diameter.

Also, thank you for all of your work on this. The cad program you have is very nice.

Hi number9.

Here is what you can get in the way of yards along the back.

- Radius 30" and 30-1/2"
- Parallel track spacing 2" - easements used to transition from 2-1/2" spacing on curves
- Depth of straight sections of table - 30"

You can see the dimensions for the longest and shortest track. You could add another track or two but obviously each gets shorter.

When it comes to yard do you need long tracks or just a lot of storage? The peninsula approach would yield a lot of tracks but not long ones.


Also, can you give me the dimensions of the locations of the other two posts - they are marked on the plan with question marks.


Thanks, Frederick

 

[number9]

I see what you are saying. That would give me more room in the layout... the problem at this moment is also sticker shock. Although I already have 103 new pieces of 3' Peco flextrack and 24 new turnouts, I was planning on building the first layout and adding the yard as money permitted, but that got wrecked with reality of track spacing and all. Heh, better now than after I build the bench work. That would have been depressing.

at the bottom of the layout make a turn and bring the bench work back up to the pole in the center of the room.
you can put the yard in the upper left corner of the layout. Have one ladder on the top wall and the other ladder on the left side of the room.

HTH
Steve

 

[OldGuyHO]

On your support post: Build a structure around it to disguise it at vision level.

 

[fcwilt]

Hi number9

Here ya go - maxed out on yards.

The only issue I didn't deal with was clearance in the yard on the curves. It's just shown as 2" spacing starting with 30" radius and stepping up by 2".

But it gives you and idea of what is possible with the space you have.


Thanks for the info on the obstacles.

I've got a basic drawing of your room with dimensions, walls and obstacles that I can use as a starting point for anything you would like to try out.


Frederick

 

[number9]

As crazy as this sounds, I would probably make the yard be a little bit farther away from the loops and put a small spur out into the loops (industry). Other than that, by my calculation it is 23 feet from top to bottom. It puts me really really close to the bottom wall, which leads to a small work-room. I might not make the actual bench that long, as that would give someone only about 12" to get into the room

I think this layout might not be a bad thing to start with (given the two changes I just mentioned). This gives a yard and two towns. The ability to run one train while playing in the yard and possibly some industry. I wonder if I have enough track to do "most" of that right now.

Thanks.

Hi number9

Here ya go - maxed out on yards.

The only issue I didn't deal with was clearance in the yard on the curves. It's just shown as 2" spacing starting with 30" radius and stepping up by 2".

But it gives you and idea of what is possible with the space you have.


Thanks for the info on the obstacles.

I've got a basic drawing of your room with dimensions, walls and obstacles that I can use as a starting point for anything you would like to try out.


Frederick

 

[fcwilt]

Hi number9,

Easy enough to insure clearance into the workshop.

How much to you want to move the yard ladders away from where they are now? 12"? 24"?

Let me know and I will make the corrections.

I haven't placed any crossovers yet to get from the outer to the inner mainline.

What have you got in the way of turnouts? I drew this plan using Peco Code 83 Streamline #6. Let me know exactly what you have and I can use them in the plan to make sure everything works.

Thanks, Frederick

 

[fcwilt]

And if you could provide dimensions for the places at the bottom of your room diagram (shop, HVAC, stairs, laundry) I can get them into the basic plan for reference purposes.

 

[number9]

I would move the ladders just enough to have a spur. The more I look at it, I could have the spurs coming from the mainline on the opposite side of the yard. This would also force the operator to drive the train around to the industry instead of right off the yard. This would also mean you would not really have to move the yard, although I am not sure how crowded it would be. Not to be picky, but there is no A/D track or lead track for the yard. Will this have an impact later on? I tried to place an A/D track in the main yard on my old layout (of course, this was with totally minimal spacing so it all fit), so I am not sure if it would work out well here. Also, if you note in the previous layouts, I have a spur coming off of the lower left loop going to the work area. This is for future staging. I would like to add that. It was a peco #8.

I do not actually have the turnouts for the yard itself. What I do have is the following, all Peco code 83:

Qty Part # Descr
103 SL-8300 36" flex track
5 SL-8361 #6 right hand turnout
5 SL-8362 #6 left hand turnout
7 SL-8381 #8 right hand turnout
7 SL-8382 #8 left hand turnout

I was going to use #8 for the crossovers, the staging turnout and from the mainline to the yard (anything off the mainline really). I was using the #6 to start the yard or in spurs for industry.

Here is a slightly updated diagram of the basement. I do not have any hard numbers on the HVAC, stairs, or laundry/hot water/electrical room dimensions.



Thanks.

Hi number9,

Easy enough to insure clearance into the workshop.

How much to you want to move the yard ladders away from where they are now? 12"? 24"?

Let me know and I will make the corrections.

I haven't placed any crossovers yet to get from the outer to the inner mainline.

What have you got in the way of turnouts? I drew this plan using Peco Code 83 Streamline #6. Let me know exactly what you have and I can use them in the plan to make sure everything works.

Thanks, Frederick

 

[fcwilt]

Hmm... my post did not go through it seems.

OK let's try again.

Thanks for the info.

Are those shelves freestanding or are the up against a wall? Is there a wall around the "off limits" area or is it just space not to be used?

JFYI transitioning from a #8 on the mainline to a #6 ladder will take up a bit of space - more then #6 to #6, say.

That pipe in the upper left - what purpose does it serve - something that small might easily be re-routed if desired.

Thanks, Frederick

 

[number9]

The shelves do no exist yet. I would make them be on the wall. In the original layout the left hand side was against the wall so that when I make the staging area it would already be there. This leads to...

The pipe on the left is my incoming water main, which comes in at the bottom of the basement and goes to the top. It can not be moved.

Hrm, but how does having a #6 on the mainline impact everything? I think I got conflicting information when I started this journey. I was told that if there was a turnout on the main, you wanted it to be as large as possible to avoid derailments. I was going to have two #8s going to an A/D that would also act as a siding for the mainline. Is this a bad idea? I could go from that to the yard with a #6?

The off limits area is just an area that is not to be used. I can use the rest of the basement, but not really that part. The room called "work room" or "work bench" is actually a room with walls, which is why I noted that we would need to raise the lower left blob up so that you could still walk in there.

Thanks.

Hmm... my post did not go through it seems.

OK let's try again.

Thanks for the info.

Are those shelves freestanding or are the up against a wall? Is there a wall around the "off limits" area or is it just space not to be used?

JFYI transitioning from a #8 on the mainline to a #6 ladder will take up a bit of space - more then #6 to #6, say.

That pipe in the upper left - what purpose does it serve - something that small might easily be re-routed if desired.

Thanks, Frederick

 

[fcwilt]

A water main that is 3/4" - that is small. Anyway I was thinking that if it was really an issue you could route the section that is in the room over to the corner, down the corner and back - a big jog without changing the entry/exit points.

From a performance point of view #6 is fine. Large certainly look better and are a good choice - the only "downside" to larger ones is the extra space they take up. So we can certainly use them. I will post a plan showing the differences.

That line between the shelves and the space not to be used is a wall?

Thanks.

 

[number9]

The line between the shelves and the off limits area is just to designate what is off limits and the middle of the room.

The interesting question about the left is: Do we make it a straight run like you have it drawn, or have it avoid the pipe and then move to the left as it is shown in some of the older revisions. It would be "better" for me if it was up against the wall as it would make building the shelf to the staging area a lot easier. However, it would perhaps be more difficult for the yard. (unless we make the mainline and A/D lines in the part against the wall and leave the yard like you have it show, but that is nearly 13" away). I am not 100% sure about the best way to handle that.

Thanks.

A water main that is 3/4" - that is small. Anyway I was thinking that if it was really an issue you could route the section that is in the room over to the corner, down the corner and back - a big jog without changing the entry/exit points.

From a performance point of view #6 is fine. Large certainly look better and are a good choice - the only "downside" to larger ones is the extra space they take up. So we can certainly use them. I will post a plan showing the differences.

That line between the shelves and the space not to be used is a wall?

Thanks.

 

[fcwilt]

Hi Number9,

The plans I have posted are not suggested as ones to build - just showing generally what will fit in a given shape.

The yard of course needs to have additional items to make it into a workable yard.

I eliminated the "jog" on the left just because it made things easier - it certainly can be restored and the necessary changes made - happy to do it.

Or you could move the "jog" down to just before the extension starts and leave the mainline where it is.

It's all doable - just need to find what suits you.


This plan has the entries to the yards moved away from the loops leaving room for industries, towns, etc. It also has the #8s on the mainline and the #6s in the yard. The additional space turned out to be an appx 3" piece of slightly curved track to get the correct angle for the yard ladders - not a big deal.


Thanks.

 

[number9]

Two things to think about (on my end I suppose) are that with no yard lead the inside mainline becomes the yard lead. It seems like we could leave the yard where it was before instead of moving it away from the loops for maximum yard and put the industry spur coming in from the other side of the mainline.

As for the jog, it is interesting. I think it will make the bench work pretty wide there. It may be too much to reach across. It is almost tempting to leave it open, as I could get behind there in a 13" space to work on it from that side if need be, however, it does create a problem with the backdrop (do I put one attached to the bench work or on the wall with a huge gap?)

I will admit, as others noted in some of the original iterations, it is now very simplistic. You either work in the yard or go around a simple loop.

 

[fcwilt]

Hey I'm glad to try anything that you want. The program I use (3rdPlanIt) is very powerful but it makes it easy to try out new ideas while at the same time making sure you don't design something that violates the "rules" of good layout design.

I'm certainly not suggesting that anything I've posted is what I think you should build.

You let me know what you would like to try.

 

[choops]

Put the yard on the front tracks. when you are reaching into the yard to uncouple cars you are not reaching over the main line and the switches are closer to the operator.
Steve

 

[number9]

I had actually thought about that at one time (that most action and reaching over would be into the yard).

One worry is that it is too simple (a big loop and a yard), but I am also telling myself that it has been a long time since I have done this, and perhaps I want it simple with some room to put industry in the loops.

Put the yard on the front tracks. when you are reaching into the yard to uncouple cars you are not reaching over the main line and the switches are closer to the operator.
Steve

 

[fcwilt]

Having the yard in front is good. But usually you end up with a good deal less storage when you have a basic plan like this.

Sticking to a flat plan limits options.

I think I will draw up something just for fun to see what you think.

Thanks.

 

[number9]

I noticed just now that no one has pointed out that reaching into the top right corner is going to be nearly impossible. It is six feet away. The solution would be to cut a hole in the loop or back that loop 14" or so away from the wall. Thoughts?

At one point in time I tried to write down my criteria for this space. Pretty much, these are my "wants":

• Large yard, for both building trains and some basic storage. The larger the better. If it only has 5 tracks and each can only hold 5 cars, I am not into it.
• Continuous running train without interference. I would like to be able to build a train in the yard with a model train running around the mainline.
• Towns. A few is nice. I would like some or all of them to have an industrial spur.
• Time: all of my trains are diesel and fairly modern. I have a few old switchers and one old Alco. I don't really care that they are older. The scenery will probably be "modern" as in 1960s-now.
• I will be putting up signals, crossings and town lights (street lights, signs, house lights). If that plays any role in it.

I already have the track I mentioned and about 10 engines and 50 box cars and hoppers. I am not particularly modelling any town or railroad. This is all fictitious.

Thanks.

 

[fcwilt]

I noticed just now that no one has pointed out that reaching into the top right corner is going to be nearly impossible. It is six feet away. The solution would be to cut a hole in the loop or back that loop 14" or so away from the wall. Thoughts?

At one point in time I tried to write down my criteria for this space. Pretty much, these are my "wants":

• Large yard, for both building trains and some basic storage. The larger the better. If it only has 5 tracks and each can only hold 5 cars, I am not into it.
• Continuous running train without interference. I would like to be able to build a train in the yard with a model train running around the mainline.
• Towns. A few is nice. I would like some or all of them to have an industrial spur.
• Time: all of my trains are diesel and fairly modern. I have a few old switchers and one old Alco. I don't really care that they are older. The scenery will probably be "modern" as in 1960s-now.
• I will be putting up signals, crossings and town lights (street lights, signs, house lights). If that plays any role in it.

I already have the track I mentioned and about 10 engines and 50 box cars and hoppers. I am not particularly modelling any town or railroad. This is all fictitious.

Thanks.

How are your wood working/mechanical design skills?

One possibility would be to return to an earlier approach you had of a design that went around the back and side walls and then cut across the middle, completing the circuit.

With this type of design you can avoid a duck under by including a portion of the platform that carries the mainline for a 2'-3' length but swings out of the way to allow entering the area inside.

Then you can avoid the wasted space of the loops turning back and have a very long and straight yard right up front.

Thoughts?