Need help with around the walls layout plan...


R

randymbtech

New Member
Hi guys, I'm new to the site. I have tons of HO trains, and recently re-discovered them in storage. My father and I built a nice layout when I was a kid, and I haven't even seen my trains in almost 20 years. I got really excited seeing them again, and I am ready to set up a nice layout in my basement. I cleared an area to build the benchwork, but I have a few obstacles to work around. One is my boiler, and the other is my electric breaker panel (which I need access to). I attatched a crude drawing of the area I am talking about.

I really want to be able to have two continious running trains, one freight line and one passenger line. All of my old track is Atlas 18 degree track, so I will be sticking with that for the turns. I want to incorporate some really nice bridges I have, and I want to build a nice tunnel. I'd also like a nice yard to park trains. I have about 15 engines, and a huge amount of rolling stock, and I want to put them to use!!!

Can anyone help me with a track plan? Also, do you think there are any problems with my bench design? I don't like the fact that my boiler is an obstruction, but I have no choice. You have to walk around the boiler to see both ends of the layout. Any other ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Randy
 
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The measurments are hard to see. It is 11.5' by 16' by 6'. I had to make it 16' long on the one side to get around the darn boiler, and then come back out to 4' to turn 2 trains around. On the right side, I have the electric panel to deal with, so I reduced the width to 2 feet, so I can reach the panel with ease.
 
nothing wrong with the bench design. I would suggest that with your size layout you stick with a single mainline and use 22" radius as a minimum. your benchwork ends are tight and trying to get 2 mainlines around a 4' board will be very tight.

I have a very simmilar benchwork plan and my track plans allows me to run one thru train on the main while a local switches and ducts into sidings to let the thru freight pass. I have a small 3 track yard with one passing sideing. 6 industries to switch with. I dont run passenger as I only have 22" as a min mainline radius. its a tight plan for the space I have.
 
Thanks for the reply! I checked all of my old track, and it's all marked 18 radius. I asked my Dad and he said we ran all of our trains on 18 radius, with no problems, even our passenger trains. It has been many years though, are we wrong???
 
You may well have run them without problems. But tight radius curves limit the equipment you can run, and look really odd with longer cars. Long cars with body-mount couplers will derail each other. Gentle curves generally look more realistic and cause fewer problems.
 
Oh, I understand. Maybe I can build the passenger line along the outside of the layout with 22 radius, and then build the freight line on the inside with the 18 degree. I really want 2 trains running at the same time, that is my goal.
 
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Can you afford to buy new track? Because it will be easier if you use flex track, everyone uses it now. You have the ability to create you own radius curves, and are not limited with the sectional track.

You can get some Atlas flex track for about $3-4/ea. per 3' section. I would also suggest buying new turnouts. You could have problems with old turnouts.
 
thats what you would have to do. 22" outside 18" inside. But like I said you put both mains on that benchwork and they will just follow the sides of the benchwork and you will have little space left for sidings and spur tracks. not to mention that the track centers spacing would have to be wider in the curves to let the long car overhangs/center to not interfear with trains on the other main.

most trains will run on 18" but if your attempt is to build a layout that represents a specific era and catch the feel that its not a toy you have to be real carefull how and what you use to build it. If running 2 trains in loop is all you want then that is simple. if your trying to make it look real, passenger cars on 18" curves does not help ;)

just my .02
 
I just noticed that the Atlas track is made out of nickel now, my old track looks like it's brass, or something? I will pick up some new flex track and turnouts too. I had a feeling my old turnouts would be an issue. Thanks!!!
 
Motly....I beg to differ... :)

18" and 22" is pretty tight. I always had better luck with sectional track at that tight of a radius. I do use flex but only in aeras that I need to join up with special bends or on long straight areas. I think Tooter gave a good tip on how to get flex to do what you want in tight radius but I have not tried it yet.....

just my .02
 
I use Walthers/Shinohora flex track, and it not only holds it's bends, but I can make pretty tight radius curves with it. I have a siding that has a 20" curve. It's a little more expensive, but it's very high quality stuff, and it looks good. It's about $6-7/ea for a 39" section.

What I do is use 2" drywall screws, on the outside rails to keep it in place, and then use latex caulk to glue it down.

Also, don't forget roadbed. You will want to get some cork roadbed that the track sits on. Again, using cheap latex caulk, glue the roadbed down to the plywood, or 2" builders foam (at Home Depot, the pink/blue stuff).
 
randymbtech said:
Basement drawing:
Click to expand...

Is the door on the left the only door? You don't need access to the wall in the lower right hand corner, just above the workbench ?

If so, what I would have done would have been do make a hole through the storage shelves at some height, or have a narrow shelf running between two heights of storage, or just take down the storage shelves and replace the space with storage cupboards above and below the layout several places along the walls, increasing total storage space in the room, and gone for a shelf type layout all around the room, a little high so there is plenty of room underneath the layout for storage, but not so high that it blocks access to the electrical panel.

Here is an earlier and very simple shelf I made for my kids, who just wanted to race a freight train and a passenger train on two parallel tracks made with sectional track:

rr.jpg


This is what my 6.5 x 11.5 foot storage room with a work bench looks like now, since I decided I wanted a bit more than just two parallel loops:

warehouse67b.jpg


Plenty of storage above and below the layout:
20100223b.jpg


Up to you what you want to do. If you feel it is better for you to squeeze in a double track dogbone along the wall, with 4 feet deep blobs for turn back curves, and using sharp curves, then so be it - it is your layout, your choices.

But I would have tried real hard to get a narrower around the walls layout into that room, even though that means dealing with the space above the workbench and the storage shelves in some way.

Smile,
Stein
 
randy where on long island are you from? i'm out in mastic beach, suffolk
if your out this way you might want to join a club
 
Say Randy,
Having been in the hobby for quite a number of years as well as building a few layouts as well as working on my current layout I wanted to offer a few thoughts and suggestions.
After reading over your intro and seeing your bench work space, which isn't too different from mine and reading what your thinking of doing it might be good to consider various things before you jump into doing something only to find out it isn't what you really wanted.

In the space you have to work with which is fairly similar to mine if your thoughts are of having any kind of operation, some various industries or even small trackside businesses your are defeating your purpose by trying to have double track IMHO. Indeed on the Right hand end you won't have room for two tracks to curve back due to the lack of real estate you have to work with. There a single track of 18" radius is going to be a tight fit if you want a return loop?

I'd say to consider the era your equipment is of and build a layout that fits that era but then your saddled with the fact that even if you use a 20" inch radius, like I am and remember the measurement is taken from the center line of the track on one side to the center line on the other, your going to have to allow a bare minimum of at least 2" of space for each track plus about 3/8" minimum extra clearance for two trains passing each other so if your planning on using say even an 18" radius you wind up using 38.5"s bare minimum and that only leaves 4.5" on either side for a building or track side detail of one type or another. Again, IMHO if you make it to cluttered it will look unrealistic and you'll get tired of that quickly too I would imagine? Open space offers a much more realistic effect. Not that various sections may not be a bit crowed but I wouldn't think you would want that everywhere.

What era is most of your equipment of and what is the length of the cars?

Also on the Right end of your table plan due to a more limited area possibly even an 18" radius will be a tight fit when you try and go from the front Right hand curve into the Left hand curve to carry the track toward the back?

There are various track planning software available, you might want to look at, Anyrail which is a free download and will allow you to draw out your table plan and then see what you can fit in but realize that what is shown on/by the program will not necessarily fit on your table or will be more crowded than it looks on the computer.

I decided that a single track main line with a number of passing sidings would be a lot more realistic for my time period and I know I'll like the realism of it much better. You also may come to realize that shorter trains run at a slower speed work a lot better than longer trains.

Also are you considering having the back line elevated a bit so as to give more seperation
to the area you have. That is what I'm doing and it can open up some other possibilities too.

You might also consider that in reality you could only operate one loco or possibly a double head or lash-up at one one time anyway.

More food for thought.

Oh, just remembered, I was born in Mineola but left NY when I was nine months old, Yep hopped a freight and headed West!
 
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Randy,

The size and shape of your benchwork is a lot like mine, mainly 2 feet wide with smallish blobs for turn back loops. A few points:

1). I would use sectional track for long curves of consistently tight radius, like the loops. Flex track will work, but I think its easier to build a large loop using sectional track. It provides a more consistent curve and you don't have to fight the track as much when building. As some one mentioned, flex is sort of best when it is used to make not-so-straight straight sections or broader curves. Of course, others have used it for tight curves and have done well.

2) Stein makes a great point. The space that you (and I) have isn't the best if you want to have trains continuously run. A circle around the room would eliminate the blobs and the tight curves. It would allow for broad curves, better passenger operations, and a better double main line situation. If your layout will be, say, 48inches high, that is plenty of room for a work bench to be underneath (typically 30 inches high) and shelving too. What ever is stored on the shelves now could be stored under the layout, all around the room, using 44" high shelves. I would do what you have to do to rework the existing shelving and bench. It would be well worth it, IMHO.

If I had your situation that's what I would do, but my boiler (furnace), water heater, and sump pump are all against the SW corner wall, making a circle shaped layout impossible.

3) I wouldn't have the layout extend 2 feet out in front of the electrical panel. Like yours, my layout passes in front of the panel, and at two feet, its easy for me, or an uncaring electrician, to scrape the layout. Therefore, I've pinched my layout to be only 9 inches deep in front of my panel. No chance of an errant bump.
 
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Thanks for the excellent advice guys, I really appreciate it. I think I am going to build the bench and temporarilly lay some sectional track down on it, just to get an idea of how it will work out. I think that you guys are right, and two continuous trains will not work given the space I have to work with. I guess I will take your advice and make one main line with a bunch of sidings and a large yard somewhere. I am pretty upset about this, on my old layout I had as a kid, I always had a freight train and a passenger train running together, and it was really neat.

Building a circle around the room is not something I would consider, I need to access my table saw, chop saw, and I need my workbench for many other projects. I like model railroading, but not enough to give up my whole shop...lol. I may try and re-arrange things a bit more to gain some more bench space. Thanks again guys, I appreciate the advice!!!

Randy
 
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