hamltnblue
Active Member
Ford isn't the only american company that took a handout. The company I work for and thousands of others didn't take one nor were they offered.
MTH SD70ACe BNSF 9370
- Thread starter BNTorsney
- Start date
hamltnblue
Active Member
I decided that the DCC issues were to not for me, mainly no individual sound volumes, no advance consist, and the toy like chatter.
So as of last night my MTH SD70ace now houses a Tsunami TSU-1000 decoder.
This install takes a bit of work and not recommended for beginners or those without electronic experience. Works like a charm and I can now enjoy it.
So as of last night my MTH SD70ace now houses a Tsunami TSU-1000 decoder.
This install takes a bit of work and not recommended for beginners or those without electronic experience. Works like a charm and I can now enjoy it.
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Laidoffsick
3 Railer
It has everything to do with HO scale. Their major role in business is O scale, and if they don't "care" about what Lionel is doing with their TMCC even though Atlas and all the major competitors are.....do you people really think they are just going throw millions into a market they just started in to live up to the DCC standards? Come on really?? MTH ins't going anywhere, so quit stop debating whether or not there are going to be here in 5 years to get tech support if you go out and buy a DCS system.
MTH HO won't go away, because just like O scale, they make stuff that no other company does, or they make it better, and people WILL buy it, and if they continue to buy the new stuff, they will eventually end up buying a DCS system and running 2 systems.....JUST LIKE THE O SCALE GUYS!
Spend more time with your hobby instead of having meaningless arguements about a company who is trying to make money for themselves, whether or not YOU THINK they should make their equipment compatible with every other company out there. It's 2010, the days of Corporate America, the old days are gone! Get used to it.
Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
Boy, you mth fans are really zealous in your opinions. Does that come from something Mike has added to the toy smoke perhaps?
As to whether or not I THINK mth should be compatible with DCC doesn't matter as I won't ever buy any of their products. What does matter though, is what the majority of the other modelers here have said. It is what they want, more DCC compatibility, better scale fidelity, etc. Most hobbyists vote with their wallets. I already have, as well as many here. Did you not read any of the others comments or did you pick me because I was more adament?
As of now there is one maker of dcs. If you believe what mike has said in the past, that's all there ever will be. There are currently at least 25 manufacturers of DCC. Are you aware of an organization called the DCC Working Group? Its a coalition of modelers AND manufacturers working together to improve DCC and its overall functionality and compatibilty that has been in existence formally for almost 10 years and informally several years prior to that.
Oh, but wait! Its 2010! There's not supposed to be any cooperation between competitors! They're not supposed to make things better for all in Model Railroading, just theirselves! They're, at least according to what you've said more than once, supposed to keep everything away from their competitors and do it their way and no other! Just because YOU THINK mth is the way to go, doesn't mean that others will buy it. Most won't. Of the ones that do, few will buy a dcs system for 1-2 locos, most will live with its shortcomings compared to DCC and a few will even rip out the dcs and replace with DCC, as we have seen above. While it true mth makes things others don't, its also true for everyone else. They have all made things that others haven't. Used to, you got your EMD & GE's from one maker, your Alcos from another and the oddball Baldwins from someone else.
BTW, I put Sony batteries in my Nikon, my wife's Cannon, as well as my Pentax cameras, your example is wrong.
Maybe it would be better if you spent more time with your hobby and stop trying to make a giant out of a dwarf.
I have to disgree here. First, I believe you're saying O Scale when you mean O Gauge (three rail). As has been pointed out to me forcefully by a fellow CJ knows, there is a big difference between O Scale and O Gauge. O Scalers are just as embedded in DCC or straight DC as most HO scalers. Three railers or O gaugers sometimes run two systems (I have followed a few TMCC/DCS threads with much frustration expressed by the posters). Most HO scalers I know would not run two systems, especially the prototype modelers and guys with well established layouts. They'll do just what Hamltnblue did, and what I would do if MTH ever happened to do something I just couldn't live without...rip out the non standard electronics and install DCC componentry, which in the case of Tsunami, is superior anyway, gives us compatibility with the rest of our rosters, and saves the heartburn and expense of a second system and redundant equipment/wiring. Of course it adds $100.00 or so to the cost of each model, so it would have to be something very special.
Some may go the other way and do two systems, but they will be the minority. Going DCS only would lock you out of every other manufacturer's products since no separate DCS receivers are offered by MTH. I can't think of any manufacturer I like that much.
There is also supposed to be a free upgrade for MTH users in the near future that will close up the gap and offer more DCC compatibility, a sign that the folks at MTH are beginning to realize that by sticking to their guns on the DCS issue they are costing themsevles market share.
hamltnblue
Active Member
There's a small hitch to the free upgrade that they still haven't officially announced. You need a DCS system to upgrade the loco. Maybe they'll offer to have people return them for the upgrade. Either way I'm sure they wont provide full DCC compatibility. I'm glad I upgraded mine. It's fun and a small challenge to do and the end result is a loco that sounds and runs great. I did the same thing with my Athearn SD60i that had an MRC decoder. I may even eventually change my blueline AC6000. Those are even worse to work with than the MTH's since they have dual decoders.
Here's a couple of pics from the upgrade.
This one is of the motor. Note the striped lines behind the flywheel. MTH uses an opto sensor that is abandoned when switching to the Tsunami. I don't know what they use it for but it might be their version of bemf.
This one is the motor with wiring. The speakers are 8 ohms so had to be wired in series since the Tsunami has a minimum of 8 ohms and the 4 ohm configuration in the chassis can damage the decoder. The opto sensor wires can be seen and are abandoned.
Here's a couple of pics from the upgrade.
This one is of the motor. Note the striped lines behind the flywheel. MTH uses an opto sensor that is abandoned when switching to the Tsunami. I don't know what they use it for but it might be their version of bemf.
This one is the motor with wiring. The speakers are 8 ohms so had to be wired in series since the Tsunami has a minimum of 8 ohms and the 4 ohm configuration in the chassis can damage the decoder. The opto sensor wires can be seen and are abandoned.
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jbaakko
Diesel Detail Freak
Looks neat, more photos?
hamltnblue
Active Member
Here you see the location of the pc board for the ditch lights. The led's are on the board and use light channels. The led's are not in the actual ditch lights.
Here's the actual board. Since MTH uses a negative common (Tsunami uses Positive common), I had to use an exacto to separate the led common's and run an additional wire so that I could have flashing ditch lights. Also note that I used 1k resistors with the led's. I don't know what the range is but so far these seem to work just fine.
Here's the actual board. Since MTH uses a negative common (Tsunami uses Positive common), I had to use an exacto to separate the led common's and run an additional wire so that I could have flashing ditch lights. Also note that I used 1k resistors with the led's. I don't know what the range is but so far these seem to work just fine.
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hamltnblue
Active Member
This is the chassis with the shell off. The volume control was for DC mode. I disconnected it and kept it for a wire hold down. The capacitors were removed since they're not needed with the Tsunami. The Headlight/number board are similar to the ditch light board. They use light channels. I left the board as is so that the number boards work with the headlight. I did reverse polarity to make it work with the MTH negative common. Also note that I used 1k resistors with the led's. I don't know what the range is but so far these seem to work just fine.
Close up of the Headlight/number light board.
Close up of the Headlight/number light board.
hamltnblue
Active Member
Here's a progress shot. I used tape as I went along for insulators. Wire shortening and heatshrink was used in the end. Notice the shell on top. 2 of the tabs broke while I figured out how to remove it. Turns out you have to press the tabs inward under the trucks. hard to see but I couldn't figure it out until I got the shell off. Also the railings are metal with plastic poles. You have to remove the metal rail from the poles and the cab before lifting the shell. They are very hearty and forgiving.
Each time I hooked another feature up I tested it.
Each time I hooked another feature up I tested it.
hamltnblue
Active Member
Wires shortened and heatshrink tubing installed before closing up. The heatshrink also hides the resistors for the LED's
Overall I think that MTH did a quality job with their construction. very clean and thought out. It also seemed that they did everything possible to make it difficult to change the decoder to DCC.
I haven't fully programmed the Tsunami yet but it's already much better being able to have DCC consist and individual sound volumes back. The sound quality is about the same but the horn is much better with the tsunami. There are multiple horns to choose from. I also have to program the ditch lights, probably type 1, as well as some others.
Oops I also have to install the Kadee's before the last pic.
Overall I think that MTH did a quality job with their construction. very clean and thought out. It also seemed that they did everything possible to make it difficult to change the decoder to DCC.
I haven't fully programmed the Tsunami yet but it's already much better being able to have DCC consist and individual sound volumes back. The sound quality is about the same but the horn is much better with the tsunami. There are multiple horns to choose from. I also have to program the ditch lights, probably type 1, as well as some others.
Oops I also have to install the Kadee's before the last pic.
hamltnblue
Active Member
Sorry, I forgot to add this one in. It's just more wires identified. The front and rear coupler wires were abandoned.
hamltnblue
Active Member
Trust me, A 1k resistor in this application will not heat up a degree. They're all rated a half watt and are in series with LED's. Absoletely no heat at all. Also according to the literature the heat shrink they use is calculated in the design. They advise to never take it off.
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Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
You could say that, although I would call it an electro-mechanical governor. Its used to keep the motor speed set to the appropriate level in their 120 speed steps. This allows for the 1 smph changes possible with the dcs. The count also gives a speedometer read out in their handset. mth's VP Andy Eidelman (think I mispelled his name), explained it in some postings "across the street" several years ago.
Its now not as fine as the speed control brought about through the use of BEMF and the newer 128 speed step decoders. IMHO.
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Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
Alan;
You gotta be talking about Mr. Fiore! He's one of the O Scalers that still calls O gaugers by what everyone used to call them, tinplaters. He still has no problem buying a $4000.00 brass O scale articulated, sending it to one fellow who will remotor and regear it to his specs, and then send it to another fellow to custom detail and paint to a specific prototype number, as it appeared on say Sept. 28, 1935, at 5:00pm 20 minutes after a thunderstorm. Wish I could play trains like he does!
I see you're still reading the O-Gauge forums, like I am. I'm still amazed at some of the permutations some of those guys go thru to get their Lionel widgets to work with mth widgets.
Given the number of guys, and their temperment that we both know, shouldn't you change that from would not to will not?
I won't ever have to worry about that. I wouldn't even install a sound decoder. Just a plain old 2 function decoder for me. I don't like sound at all. Since displaying and demonstrating a PFM sound unit installed into a US Hobbies L&N O scale Berk for 3 days at a mall show, 9am 'til 10pm in 1974, sound units give me a massive headache after about 10 mins. I will and do install them and program them, but I won't own any. Although being able to actually "play" that whistle was neat!
Foot, since I cut my collection down from 200 locos, I don't own more than 3 or four of any one maker, including my brass. Now that I think of it, I don't even own any Athearn now either. I even got rid of my "Athearn Tune-up Clinic" queen SW-7.
I believe that Josh had said what they are gonna offer, but it still falls short of full compatibilty. As Hamltnblue has said though, you gotta have a dcs system to install the upgrade. He thinks maybe they'll do it for you if you don't own one. I think they will too, except they'll charge you for it then.
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jbaakko
Diesel Detail Freak
That's interesting to know, I've always been told not to place it in heat shrink... Saves me tons of time!
Smaller Photos
After clicking the below LINK, scroll down the right side of the window to "ImageResizer.exe." It is a SAFE download, I have been using it for years!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/Downloads/powertoys/Xppowertoys.mspx
If your running Windows XP in your home computer, Microsoft offers a FREE download to resize (reduce) digital photos; the smallest size of the three choices is the PERFECT size for Internet Forum Posts and Email. Once installed, whenever you RIGHT click a digital photo, you will have a NEW option in the list to "Resize Pictures". After resizing you will be left with two photos, the original and the smaller one; the smaller one will have the same name with "(small)" behind the title.Sorry, I forgot to add this one in. It's just more wires identified. The front and rear coupler wires were abandoned.
After clicking the below LINK, scroll down the right side of the window to "ImageResizer.exe." It is a SAFE download, I have been using it for years!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/Downloads/powertoys/Xppowertoys.mspx
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Didn't Take Handout
It is my understanding that FORD is the ONLY automaker that DIDN'T take a loan from the Fed?
